Christina Stuart MacDonald b1833 Blair Athole to Donald MacD & Margt Robertson

[Mixo]

Thank you too Throth,

I have gone through your site a week ago, a great resource, however your local knowledge is special stuff.

My apologies for some misleading initial info - it was actually 2 of Christina's grandchildren
who were given Stuart as middle names.

Christina's eldest with Henry Harvey was John Charles McManus Harvey ( McManus was via a best friend I think from Ballarat ) whose son was Horatio Stuart Harvey.

Christina's only son with Edward Mill Clifton was Richard Henry Clifton, and his first born was Harold Stuart Clifton.

My first cousin I mentioned is Alan Stuart Richardson, Christinas great great grandson, whose mother was Judith Harvey.

If its is possible to confirm birth details, like parents of Donald MacDonald and Margaret Roberts(on), it should make things clearer. It's like a needle in a haystack, even from limited resources this way.

Cheers,
Mixo
Vic Australia

[Throth]

Most of what you need to do is nearly as easy from where you are, so don't give up.  You might be able to go back another generation using Donald's possible brother ..... but it's messy!

a) If the couple are Donald McDonald and spouse Margaret Robertson, and they came from Blair Atholl then go the ScotlandsPeople and get the marriage entry from the Blair Atholl OPR (8 Feb 1829), just to check that we are correct that Donald McDonald was living at Achleanie/Auchleanie.

b) Alexander MacDonald in Achleanie and Mary MacGregor in Learan, Fortingall parish, married 23 Jan 1831. Now we assume that these are brothers but some kind person in Perth might nip into the Bell Library and look at John Kerr's research to check whether there just one McDonald family or not.

c) Assuming that there is a single McDonald family, here is Alexander's family:

Alexander McDonald    Mary McGregor   Achleanie   Christian   20 Dec 1832
Alexander MacDonald   Mary McGregor   Achleanie   Margaret (twin)   12 Apr 1834
Alexander MacDonald   Mary McGregor   Achleanie   Ann (twin)   12 Apr 1834
Alexander McDonald   Mary McGregor   Achleanie   Thomas   29 Jul 1836
Alexander McDonald   Mary McGregor   Achleanie   John   30 Dec 1838
Alexander McDonald   Mary McGregor   Achleanie   Mary   31 Dec 1840
Alexander McDonald   Mary McGregor   Achleanie   Alexander 4   31 Dec 1840
Alexander McDonald   Mary McGregor   Achleanie   Elizabeth   6 Feb 1846

Here is the 1841 census:

Achleanie
Dwelling   Name   Age   Occupation   Birth-place
Alexander McDonald   45y   farmer   Perthshire
Margaret McDonald   30y      Perthshire
Christian McDonald   9y      Perthshire
Peggy McDonald   8y      Perthshire
Ann McDonald   8y      Perthshire
Thomas McDonald   5y      Perthshire
John McDonald   3y      Perthshire
Margaret McDonald   6m      Perthshire
Alexander McDonald   6m      Perthshire
Sarah McGregor   30y   female servant   Perthshire
Eliza McNaughton   15y   female servant   Perthshire

There are another 2 farmers at Achleanie but none are McDonalds in 1841

Here is the 1851 census:

Dwelling   Name   Occupation   Related   Status   Age   Birth-place
Alexander McDonald    pendicler of 4 acres   head   marr   50y   Blair Atholl
Mary McDonald      wife   marr   42y   Blair Atholl
Christian McDonald      dau   u/m   18y   Blair Atholl
Thomas McDonald   scholar   son   u/m   14y   Blair Atholl
John McDonald   scholar   son   u/m   12y   Blair Atholl
Alexander McDonald   scholar   son   u/m   9y   Blair Atholl
Marry McDonald   scholar   dau   u/m   9y   Blair Atholl
Betty McDonald      dau   u/m   5y   Blair Atholl
Sara McGregor      visitor   u/m   44y   Fortingall (Mary McDonald's sister?)

We don't have the 1861, 1871 or 1881 census details to hand but Alex McDonald is in each one at Achleanie. For example here is his 1861 census entry:

MCDONALD ALEXAR 1861 Male 61 years 334/ 1/ 6 Blair Atholl Perthshire
334 is the Blair Atholl code, 1 is the area from Dalnacardoch south to Bruar in which Achleanie is situated, 6 is the page number in area section 1

And you can identify him in 1871 and 1881 in the same way (section 1, but getting older)

Now in 1881 close down the other census options and open the 1881 LDS census (it's a free one)

Search using Mc Donald (leave a space between Mc and D) and census place Blair (leave out the atholl part) and you be able to see him and his family.  His eldest son is Thomas - that might be significant. Now we know that he died after 1881.

Now search ScotlandsPeople for Statutory Deaths after 1881, aged over 80y and widen the search to the whole of Perth(shire) as you won't find him in Blair Atholl.  You should get 4 possibilities. The nearest to Achleanie are Foss and Tenandry (we guess the latter)

Here endeth the tutorial ......... tell us what you discover,
Throth

[Mixo]

Hi again Troth,
WOW - do appreciate with many thanks, for your time and expertise, however I believe the dates and names per your last message outlines, rule out this Alexander MacDonald and family featured in your investigations.

Summarising my MacDonald Connection -
Christina Stuart MacDonalds birth per 1860 marriage cert, c1833 at Blair on Atholl, Perthshire.

Estimation of Christinas Parents birth possibilties
Donald MacDonald -
DOB approx 1805 +/- 10 years
POB unknown - Likely near Blair Atholl or possibly Inverness where wife Margaret was apparently from.
DOD Have scanned thru Victorian BDM and no death details or link to wife Roberts, Robertson, or Stuart as possible parents found.
Have just located rates records for Donald from 1873 - 1898 at Smeaton near Creswick ( where Christina married ) where he leased a 65 acre farm, so perhaps his parents were farmers too.

Margaret Roberts(on)
DOB approx 1805 +/- 10 years
POB Death Cert states from Inverness. Age and parents unknown.
POD Sebastopol Vic in 1893, which is where Christina's last son, Richard Henry Clifton was born in 1872.

From the above, it is likely
Donald MacDonalds parents were born approx 1785 +/- 10 years, likely near Blair Atholl.
Margaret Roberts(on)s parent were born approx 1785 +/- 10 years, possibly at Inverness.

Hope this info is of help,
Regards,
Mixo

[Throth]

Are you sure that the Donald McDonald at Smeaton in 1873 is Christina's father and not a brother? 

If Christina was born ~1833, then her father is 60 by 1873 (and more likely 70 as the men tended to marry in late 20s or early 30s) and by 1898 he's 85 at the very least.

Civil Registration in Victoria started in 1853, so there should be a record.

Throth

[Mixo]

Dear Troth,

I believe we are on the same page so to speak, regarding approximate ages of Christinas parents, who hopefully are the key to the mystery my MacDonald related Richardson cousin has asked me to look into.

The big picture / mystery, is my Richardson cousin's sister has a broach, which has been handed down from MacDonald to Harvey to Richardson Down Under, which apparently per their family folklore, is somehow linked to Flora MacDonald from Skye, who rescued Bonnie Prince Charlie Edward Stuart, after the defeat of the Jacobites. ( This Stuart name / connection is starting to haunt me a wee tad - LOL ). I have looked into this mystery from the other end, ie from when Flora was born in Milton, however it came to a dead end.

My late mother was a Richardson by the way, per my basic research of her known relations who came Down Under for the Victorian Gold Rush, via
http://www.richardson.org.au/

So I hope you understand, that after eliminating another Donald MacDonald from near Smeaton who was a pioneer & teacher in the 1860s, all I can say is that from my local knowledge and 20 years experience in Aussie record access, I can't guarantee 100% that the rate paying Donald MacDonald I mentioned was her father, or brother, or uncle, or just a namesake neighbour. I would put it down as approx 82.3231 % likely LOL.

I reviewed over 130 relevant Donald MacDonald deaths in Victoria, and many lived to be over 80 years, and 2 lived over 100, so I would assume our Donald was of similar tough Scottish breeding stock and long living genes.

Looking at following lead I have found on Ancestry today.
Name:   Donald Mcdonald
Gender:   Male
Baptism Date:   10 Feb 1802
Baptism Place:   Moneydie,Perth,Scotland
Father:   Alexr. Mcdonald
Mother:   Margaret Stewart
FHL Film Number:   1040130

Thank you again Troth.
Would love to check out your accent one day.
Ciao for now
Mixo

[Throth]

We are not certain why you are discounting the fellow in Achleanie.

Christina's marriage certificate says that her parents were Donald McDonald and Margaret Robertson, also that she was born in Blair Atholl around 1833.

It is extremely rare for a marriage not to be recorded but baptisms were not that important and by the 1830s the number of entries in the OPR is probably half of what it should be.  Some were added at the last moment in 1854 when Civil Registration started.  The last chance to get your name in the Church record. So we are not surprised if Christian's baptism is not recorded.  There is also the slight possibility that the family were Baptists or Episcopalian.

But as we said marriages were just about essential for living in this very Christian parish.  There are only two marriages in the whole of Perthshire for a Donald McDonald/MacDonald and Margaret Robertson, and the other one makes it impossible for Christian to be their daughter.

Our ferrets were told not to spend anything on this topic as you are not a paying client, but have disobeyed orders and downloaded the Tenandry death certificate for Alexander McDonald in Achleanie. This gives Alexander's parents and, of course his brother Donald's parentage.

The ferrets are convinced that they are following the correct family line but the trail leaves Blair Atholl parish and they have been told to go no further back.  You are welcome to pursue Moneydie, but the ferrets say that you are going down the wrong rabbit-hole.

If, on the other hand, you want to see their ferretings and their disobedience results in you getting back another generation with Donald McDonald's ancestors then you should give a small donation to a local charity where you live.  Borenich.co.uk. will cover the cost of the certificate and the 2 hours research time spent by the ferrets.

Throth

[Mixo]

Hi Troth,

Thank you for your further clarification of your complex research, and also how your group / ferrets operates.

Naturally, I would really appreciacte seeing "results in you getting back another generation with Donald McDonald's ancestors", in return for a local charity donation.

I am a weekly volunteer as a receptionist at Food Relief in my nearest town of Warragul, where I give weekly donations towards helping feed people in need, and host their web site at my expense. I also just donated $50 to Vision Australia, who are a group which train Seeing Eye Dogs for blind people in my state.  Receipt is attached.

Best regards for Christmas and 2019,
Mixo

[Throth]

The original is Crown Copyright and we don't need to upset people by breaking copyright, but here is the data:

1890 Deaths in the District of Tenandry in the County of Perth, Entry 6

Name: Alexander McDonald, farmer, widower of Mary McGregor
When died: 21st May 1890 at 6.30 hours a.m. at Borenich
     (this is Borenich farm, not the district. We checked where Thomas McDonald his son was living against the 1891 census return)
Sex: male
Age: 92 years
Parents: Thomas McDonald, farmer (deceased), Christina McDonald, maiden surname McDonald (deceased)
Cause: a) Cardiac disease, b) Old age, duration many years.
Informant: Thomas McDonald, son (present)

So these are the parents of your Donald McDonald, and they had a daughter Ann born at Achleanie in 1803 (the mother is named as Cirsty McDonald. Prior to that they were in Logierait parish. Alexander was born ~1798 but there is no sign of a baptism in either the Logierait or Blair Atholl OPRs.  Here are the rest of the known children:

Thomas McDonald   Christian McDonald   Logierait   Donald    22 Apr 1795 (Logierait OPR)
Thomas McDonald   Christian McDonald   Logierait   James   22 Apr 1795 (Logierait OPR)
Thomas McDonald   Christian McDonald   Logierait   John           23 Jan 1797 (Logierait OPR)
Thomas McDonald   Christian McDonald   Logierait?   Alexander    ~1798
Thomas McDonald   Cirsty McDonald         Achleanie   Ann            27 Jun 1803 (Blair Atholl OPR)

So your Donald McDonald, who married Margaret Robertson was born in 1795 and had a twin brother.

There is one other McDonald marriage at Achleanie who may be related in some way.

John MacDonald   Christian Cameron   Achleanie   Janet   26 Aug 1806

There is a fair chance that he is either Thomas's brother or his brother-in-law.

We trust that you are satisified with the efforts of our ferrets.

Throth

[Mixo]

Hi Troth
Thank you again - really appreciate your time and effort
Mixo