Author Topic: Sarah Smith  (Read 18850 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Sarah Smith
« Reply #63 on: Wednesday 26 December 18 23:29 GMT (UK) »
Re William and Sarah SMITH and Mary Ann SMITH’s baptism 14 May 1815.

SPECULATIVE,
but the following casts doubt over IF that baby grew up and was the lass who married Charles LEWIS in Sydney …

A Marriage:
William SMITH, bachelor, of Sydney, a Cook and Sarah GEORGE, Spinster of Sydney, married 28 August 1810, by Banns, Witnesses  Thomas REYNOLDS (signed) and Mary NUTTLE, signed x mark. Marriage registered St Philips C of E, Sydney by William COWPER. 

So, there’s another William and Sarah SMITH … Is that Mary Ann SMITH’s parents - a definite possibility …. If so, perhaps the following is significant…

I have not looked further than just from my armchair this morning, but

Briefly, that Sarah GEORGE was transported 1809 per Indispensible to NSW.
She married in NSW in 1810, had children in NSW and then in Tasmania.   
She died 28 October 1826, in Tasmania. 

* So, I have read (but not undertaken any investigation), that Two of the children of William SMITH and his wife, Sarah GEORGE were born NSW and the others in Tasmania. 
* I have read, and I have checked and YES I agree that William SMITH and his wife, Sarah GEORGE are findable in Sydney NSW in the November 1814 Muster.  … off stores. 

*** I have not proceeded further,  I am NSW centric, and not VDL centric...    But I had been reading through a database within the BDA database… here is a pdf about that secondary database:

http://www.bda-online.org.au/files/TA1_Database.pdf - please read this through as it explains the database as a secondary ongoing source rather than as a primary source. 

So there’s this burial in Hobart…  https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD35-1-1p9j2k  Mary Anne SMITH.  3 Feb 1839
https://linctas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names/
and
here's RChat's Tasmania Resources Board with plenty of live links
 https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369953.0

I can find other married women in Sydney in the 1800-1815 years who were recorded as Sarah, wife of XYZ SMITH chaps ... but it is all very speculative, and I continue to urge the effort needs to concentrate of Joseph LEWIS and then his parents before going back further on his mum's parents...
 :)
 
JM  PS, sorry but I have tried and have not yet 'mastered' the 'bullet list' option offering at RChat  :-[  :-[  :-[
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Offline sasarina

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Re: Sarah Smith
« Reply #64 on: Thursday 27 December 18 02:06 GMT (UK) »
I cannot thank you guys enough.  I have do some really elusive ancestors.

I have no issues with Jane Noble and Joseph Lewis of Fitzgerald's Valley and their descendants.
There is much hard evidence, re headstone at St Stephens Church at the Valley and marriages of the children, obt's for both Jane and Joseph.

The marriage transcription of Jane and Joseph does not offer much.
Presbyterian Marriages 1853-1854
25/05/1853
Sydney
Married by special licence
Joseph Lewis, bachelor, member of the Presbyterian Church of Scotland
Usual residence,  Sydney
No details for Jane
The witnesses were John and Jane Yarker.

As previously posted Jane arrived as an assisted immigrant from Ireland on the David McIvor in 1852
She was 20 y/o,  CoE,  domestic servant,  could read and write, both parents deceased John and Martha ( I have given up on finding them)
Jane Yarker was the wife of a convict, she travelled with Jane Noble on the David McIvor, so there are no issues with this.

Also I think the most likely parents for Joseph Lewis are Charles Lewis, the Baker and a Mary A Smith b.1815 , who had an illiterate sister Charlotte who married Thomas Galliott, seems the Smiths were illiterate?

That possible Mary A is very interesting, will check what siblings she had?
Nobody has been able to find any trace of Mary A. after her marriage.





Offline sasarina

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Re: Sarah Smith
« Reply #65 on: Saturday 29 December 18 05:12 GMT (UK) »
Hello,
I have been slowly browsing all the info you wonderful people have sent me.

and I think JM you may be on to something?  but like you mentioned the dots don't join up?

My only problem with this scenario is the dates?  If they married in 1830, they were pretty quick with the births of the children?

There is still something still not right??  but a lot of the names keep popping up, it also relates to the Bathurst area.

You mentioned a Sarah Watson married a John Smith in 1830, witnesses Thomas Galliott and Charlotte Smith.
I am not sure the convict ship you mentioned is correct?  I think maybe it is the Northampton?  arrived 1815 in NSW,
She was borne in Hertsfordshire, abt 1785,  did you know there was a town called Broxbourne in Hertsfordshire? Maybe the mix up with the transport ships?

This John Smith is the son of William Smith and Sarah Lake.
Also this John Smith was charged for harbouring a bushranger named John Weavers.
I did read about another bushranger name John Priestly (not sure it is spelt correct) there was also a connection to William Smith and Sarah Lake with this Bushranger.

James Smith, the son of John Smith and Sarah Watson married a Harriet Dover in 1850.

Harriet Dover's father was from Hertsfordshire.

What do you think?  My head is starting to spin again, so I could be getting myself tied up in knots.

Add, oh just spotted that the Sarah Watson arrived on the Northampton married a William Betts.




Offline majm

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Re: Sarah Smith
« Reply #66 on: Saturday 29 December 18 07:14 GMT (UK) »
Hello,
I have been slowly browsing all the info you wonderful people have sent me.

and I think JM you may be on to something?  but like you mentioned the dots don't join up?

My only problem with this scenario is the dates?  If they married in 1830, they were pretty quick with the births of the children?

There is still something still not right??  but a lot of the names keep popping up, it also relates to the Bathurst area.

You mentioned a Sarah Watson married a John Smith in 1830, witnesses Thomas Galliott and Charlotte Smith.
I am not sure the convict ship you mentioned is correct?  I think maybe it is the Northampton?  arrived 1815 in NSW,
She was borne in Hertsfordshire, abt 1785,  did you know there was a town called Broxbourne in Hertsfordshire? Maybe the mix up with the transport ships?

This John Smith is the son of William Smith and Sarah Lake.
Also this John Smith was charged for harbouring a bushranger named John Weavers.
I did read about another bushranger name John Priestly (not sure it is spelt correct) there was also a connection to William Smith and Sarah Lake with this Bushranger.

James Smith, the son of John Smith and Sarah Watson married a Harriet Dover in 1850.

Harriet Dover's father was from Hertsfordshire.

What do you think?  My head is starting to spin again, so I could be getting myself tied up in knots.

Add, oh just spotted that the Sarah Watson arrived on the Northampton married a William Betts.

Hi, 

I think you need to find where your Joseph LEWIS actually names his parents ... or at least gives details that positively point to that C of E baptism in Sydney,  afterall you have his marriage and its noting that he was a Presbyterian .... big decision for a young lad to change his denomination ... 
Do you have any NSW b.c. for  the  children to Joseph and Jane ... if so,  who registered the births and what info given re Josephs origins on those births ....  did Joseph sign,  what occupation,  ...

If this were my family I would validate Joseph info before venturing back a generation or more .and into other colonies etc..  particularly need to have a good grasp of any detail in those NSW  bdm events from 1851 to 1915 ... civil registration commenced 1856 and until WWI was basically collecting info via verbal lodgements... not everyone could read what the clerks wrote down,  and some could sign their name but were not good at reading scribble ....

JM
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Offline majm

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Re: Sarah Smith
« Reply #67 on: Saturday 29 December 18 11:28 GMT (UK) »
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/157959969 National Advocate 15 Aug 1912 ... 64 acres
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/157969434 National Advocate 22 Aug 1912 --- son bought it.

Here's the bushranger story, in the obit for Mrs Jane LEWIS
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/157959074 National Advocate 4 May 1912

Here's Joseph's obit
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/158408686 National Advocate 4 Dec 1889

For general information, here's some online info re John Peisley, a bushranger mentioned earlier in this thread.
https://aguidetoaustralianbushranging.wordpress.com/2018/10/17/john-peisley-an-overview/

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline sasarina

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Re: Sarah Smith
« Reply #68 on: Sunday 30 December 18 06:28 GMT (UK) »
I have done some sifting through my paperwork for the Lewis family.

Not a lot of info unfortunately,  I had spoken to the transcription agent for NSW, he advised it was because they were early church records.

I have a listing for all the baptisms for Fitzgerald's Valley from 1869,  all recorded for St.Stephens Church.

Susannah Lewis, my grandmother
Born 1864
Father,  Joseph, farmer
Mother  Jane, Ireland
Informant, Joseph, farmer, signed
Place, Fitzgerald's Valley
No denomination mentioned.

Joseph Lewis
Death 1889,  Fitzgerald's Valley
Father,  Charles Lewis
Mother,  Mary Smith
Informant,  W Goodfellow,  Friend
CoE  Fitzgerald's Valley.


Jane Lewis
Death,  1912,  Fitzgerald's Valley
No parents Listed
Informant,  T Lewis,  son.
CoE  Fitzgerald's Valley.

Note,  All the children are correctly listed on both  Josephs and Janes death cert.s

Birth,  Mary A Lewis,  1854,  South Creek, NSW
Father,  Joseph Lewis
Mother,  Jane Lewis
No denomination  mentioned.

In relation to Charles Lewis marriage to Mary A Smith.   I think that most the convicts would have been married CoE, because it had many benefits, re Samuel Marsden.  I have read some colonial secretary's letters regarding the convicts converting to Christianity.

I do not have any info on Joseph Lewis whereabouts after his birth in 1832 to his marriage to Jane in 1853, a gap of 20 years, this could have been an important part of his life, maybe times were tough? or he was enticed for whatever reason,  to become a member of the Presbyterian Church, as they were on the rise in the 1830's.

All their BMD's were in St. Stephens Anglican Church, Fitzgerald's Valley, maybe that was the only church there at the time?

I have no reason to doubt that this Joseph and Jane Lewis are my g grandparents, especially as previously noted that all Susannah's siblings were correctly listed on their death cert.s,  it's their ancestors that I am doubtful about.

I hope this makes some sense?

 

Offline majm

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Re: Sarah Smith
« Reply #69 on: Sunday 30 December 18 06:46 GMT (UK) »
I am sure we are not doubting your ancestors are Joseph LEWIS and his wife Jane.  From the birth records of the NSW BDM who registered their daughter Susannah and what info did they give about Josephs origins  ... the civil registration included provision for a good deal of info about each parent ... and the informant too ... not the church record but the civil birth certificate ... official transcript will have it.  So hoping it will have the info about Joseph tbat will join dots to that 1832 baptism ... which at present is not yet joining up...  8)

Fingers crossed Joseph registered your Grandmother.

 
JM
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Offline majm

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Re: Sarah Smith
« Reply #70 on: Sunday 30 December 18 06:55 GMT (UK) »
 :)

So basically ,  I am hoping that Joseph registered the birth of at least one of his children and that he told the deputy NSWBDM registrar where he was born, etc

JM
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Offline sasarina

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Re: Sarah Smith
« Reply #71 on: Sunday 30 December 18 07:27 GMT (UK) »
The info on Susannah Lewis was included in the previous post I sent, and was the full transcription.
Sorry I did miss some details, I will have another go. She was

Born  1864  Fitzgerald's Valley

States  that her father was Joseph Lewis, a farmer, his birthplace was Sydney NSW.  his age was 32. 
Her mother was Jane Noble from Ireland, age 29.

The informant was Joseph Lewis, farmer, Fitzgerald's Valley, Bathurst.
Present at birth Mrs Gould.

Registered 20/04/1865

I hope I have got it right this time?