More Illegitimate Ancestors

[EBrand]

Dec Q 1867, findmypast
It's indexed as Lombardlen.  I'll report the error.

I had a feeling it could have been misspelled. But I just did a search of the GRO and nothing for Lombardlen there either.

I had seen the article you posted a few months ago, where Mary (who was Fanny's aunty on her father's side) basically disowned her. I don't have access to the original case so I had no idea why such things were being said about her! If you could send me a photo of the original case/article, that would be absolutely lovely, thank you!

And thank you for the info, I'll get onto contacting Huddersfield FHS immediately!

[EBrand]

You might be interested in this too.

By the way I checked my baptism transcriptions for Honley and Almondbury, but no luck.  Huddersfield FHS might be able to run a search for Annie Elizabeth's baptism for a small fee.  I only have the transcriptions I've mentioned.

I'm also not entirely sure but perhaps Annie Elizabeth wasn't baptised? Her grandfather was Italian and so there is a chance the family was Catholic. I don't know too much about this side as my grandma and great-grandma renounced all religion. Am I right in the fact that in Catholicism, illegitimate children could not be baptised?

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[EBrand]

It's late and I'm a little woozy from pain killers, but my understanding is that for a birth registration where the parents are not married to each other but both are named, the GRO records the entry only once, in the surname of the father.  If the mother has never married then technically she does not have a 'maiden' surname, so her unmarried surname is not recorded at all, hence the - in the mmn field.

FreeBMD however, records the entry under both surnames.

So in this instance the GRO would only record the registration as Cuttle (father's surname) with no mmn noted.

Am I right in thinking that for an illegitimate birth the father has to be present for him to be named?

Only after 1874.

Interesting!
Thanks for this knowledge. I'm going to get on and order the Cuttle certificate right now.

[Claire64]

Sent you a PM
I can't help with the Catholic thing I'm afraid but I'd be interested to know the answer.
Please let us know how you get on with the Cuttle certificate.
I am sure I once read that there is more than one set of typed BMD indexes, so the possibility of errors creeping in is there.  Will have to look into this.  It will have been in one of my old books, which I recently got rid of as they were so out of date...e.g. go to St. Catherine's House in person for the indexes and ordering!  And no computers either!! Eeh them were t' days eh!

[Claire64]

...love Google...just found this:

"the GRO's indexes are secondary indexes" not "the original indexes held by local register offices", hence transcription errors can occur.
To find your certificates, it may be better to contact the local register offices where you think the events were originally registered.
Helpful advice I think.
There's also a link here which is worth a read:
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/

I did once contact Sheffield RO about an entry so I could order the correct certificate.  I had to tell them the name of the mother (illegitimate child) and then they sent me the correct reference for the birth certificate I wanted - there were a lot to choose from, so this ensured I got the right one and didn't waste my money.

[EBrand]

...love Google...just found this:

"the GRO's indexes are secondary indexes" not "the original indexes held by local register offices", hence transcription errors can occur.
To find your certificates, it may be better to contact the local register offices where you think the events were originally registered.
Helpful advice I think.
There's also a link here which is worth a read:
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/

I did once contact Sheffield RO about an entry so I could order the correct certificate.  I had to tell them the name of the mother (illegitimate child) and then they sent me the correct reference for the birth certificate I wanted - there were a lot to choose from, so this ensured I got the right one and didn't waste my money.

Okay no worries! I've already ordered the Cuttle one so I'll see what that says and hopefully it'll give me some more clues.
Thank you!

[J.R.Ellam]

Hi remember reading the about the court case, it ended with the jury not being able to agree and one of the jurors pinned another against the door and the aftermath went on for weeks until a retrial.The report trial might give you a few more clues, if not it is a good read anyway.

John

[EBrand]

Hi remember reading the about the court case, it ended with the jury not being able to agree and one of the jurors pinned another against the door and the aftermath went on for weeks until a retrial.The report trial might give you a few more clues, if not it is a good read anyway.

John

Thanks! It sure sounds interesting haha

[Dundee]

"the GRO's indexes are secondary indexes" not "the original indexes held by local register offices", hence transcription errors can occur.

I believe this has been explained many times before.  The online GRO indexes have nothing to do with the old indexes. They are currently indexing from the original documents and any surname in the mother's column will not be indexed if it cannot be determined that the name is her maiden surname.  The name must be preceded by the word 'formerly' to be indexed.

The old GRO indexes were different in that they indexed under both surnames if the father was named and mother's name was not preceded by the word 'formerly'.  These are the indexes that are used by FreeBMD and this is why you see Ann Elizabeth's birth indexed under both names on FreeBMD but not in the GRO indexes.

B. As the Lombardini one doesn't show on the GRO site, I would email them quoting the reference details for both the Cuttle and Lombardini entries explaining you want the one that has Fanny as the mother.  (I'll look again for you though just to make sure)

The correct way to query an entry is to use the link at the bottom of the search page which says:

Noticed a problem with a record in the GRO Indexes?
You can report it to GRO and help us improve the quality of information available.

In this case the most likely answer will be 'Investigated – No amendment required'.

Debra