Author Topic: Shared cM Tools & Triangulation  (Read 356 times)

Offline rsel

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Shared cM Tools & Triangulation
« on: Friday 28 December 18 09:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi All,
   I have been using the DNA Painter shared cM tool for a while to try and tie together the possible relationships between me, my father and a couple of cousins.   Whilst useful, I am struggling to get a best fit of the relationships between the 4 people.   Does anybody know of a version of the tool that adds some triangulation into the calculations, so for example I know the relationship between me and my father, so if I entered the cM data that we both share with a cousin, it could narrow down the possible relationship to that cousin ?

Richard
Sellens - Sussex
Newham - Surrey
Wellington - Dagenham, Essex
Camp - South Essex
Wren - Essex
Livermore - Essex
Wane - Essex
Fisk - Essex / Suffolk
Bailey/Bayley - Sussex
Newton - Sussex
Funnell - Sussex
Streeter - Sussex
Coates - Sussex
Maisey - Surrey

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Offline Gadget

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Re: Shared cM Tools & Triangulation
« Reply #1 on: Friday 28 December 18 09:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi Richard

Have you looked at the relationship at the chromosome level rather than via Painter? 

Gadget
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Offline Gadget

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Re: Shared cM Tools & Triangulation
« Reply #2 on: Friday 28 December 18 09:35 GMT (UK) »
Also, do you have any info on them besides the cM data?  I'd go for tree research first.
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Offline rsel

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Re: Shared cM Tools & Triangulation
« Reply #3 on: Friday 28 December 18 12:01 GMT (UK) »
Hi Richard

Have you looked at the relationship at the chromosome level rather than via Painter? 

Gadget
Yes I have looks at the chromosome level and I know we share the same overlapping segments :-)
Sellens - Sussex
Newham - Surrey
Wellington - Dagenham, Essex
Camp - South Essex
Wren - Essex
Livermore - Essex
Wane - Essex
Fisk - Essex / Suffolk
Bailey/Bayley - Sussex
Newton - Sussex
Funnell - Sussex
Streeter - Sussex
Coates - Sussex
Maisey - Surrey

Offline rsel

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Re: Shared cM Tools & Triangulation
« Reply #4 on: Friday 28 December 18 12:08 GMT (UK) »
Also, do you have any info on them besides the cM data?  I'd go for tree research first.
Yes, but the trouble is the line we are sure is the match is one of those great easy to follow lines....A Collins surname in London, with the wonderful useful birth place of Ireland :-) We have taken the paper trail as far as we can on both sides, both ending with a John Collins, he trouble is the paper trail is not linking the families, what we are now tryign to do is work out that based on the about of cM we share are our two John's likely to be the same person, or is likely to be a different generation. 
Doing the checks seperatly i am not finding a good match based on the percentages that fits both me and my father for either couisn, which means a low probability connection, but working the combinations takes a long time, so was hoping tool that could narrow down the combinations would be a great help :-)
Sellens - Sussex
Newham - Surrey
Wellington - Dagenham, Essex
Camp - South Essex
Wren - Essex
Livermore - Essex
Wane - Essex
Fisk - Essex / Suffolk
Bailey/Bayley - Sussex
Newton - Sussex
Funnell - Sussex
Streeter - Sussex
Coates - Sussex
Maisey - Surrey

Offline rsel

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Re: Shared cM Tools & Triangulation
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 29 December 18 06:44 GMT (UK) »
Ok, I have found a tool that does almost exactly what I was after :-)  On the DNApainter website, they have a tool in Beta development called 'Tree Version', it allows you to 'draw' a basic family tree and enter the cM values against invidiuals.  Then you can mark a number of i'boxes' on the tree as the people you want to check out, and it will tell you which of the boxes is the best fit based on the amount of shared cM you have supplied.

Richard
Sellens - Sussex
Newham - Surrey
Wellington - Dagenham, Essex
Camp - South Essex
Wren - Essex
Livermore - Essex
Wane - Essex
Fisk - Essex / Suffolk
Bailey/Bayley - Sussex
Newton - Sussex
Funnell - Sussex
Streeter - Sussex
Coates - Sussex
Maisey - Surrey

Offline squawki11

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Re: Shared cM Tools & Triangulation
« Reply #6 on: Monday 31 December 18 15:05 GMT (UK) »
Have you thought of uploading raw data results to Gedmatch/Genesis and using the tools therein? It can be a bit off-putting to begin with but may provide additional information.

Offline rsel

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Re: Shared cM Tools & Triangulation
« Reply #7 on: Monday 31 December 18 17:04 GMT (UK) »
Have you thought of uploading raw data results to Gedmatch/Genesis and using the tools therein? It can be a bit off-putting to begin with but may provide additional information.
Yes I have my test on both the original and Beta for Genesis, which is how I know the cousins share the same segments, but nothing (that I have found) on the website helps you determine the most likely relationships between them :-)
Sellens - Sussex
Newham - Surrey
Wellington - Dagenham, Essex
Camp - South Essex
Wren - Essex
Livermore - Essex
Wane - Essex
Fisk - Essex / Suffolk
Bailey/Bayley - Sussex
Newton - Sussex
Funnell - Sussex
Streeter - Sussex
Coates - Sussex
Maisey - Surrey

Offline squawki11

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Re: Shared cM Tools & Triangulation
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 01 January 19 06:39 GMT (UK) »
If you have the chromosome/segment details and you wish to check if the "Johns" are one and the same person, I'd have thought a 1to1 on Gedmatch/Genesis would have provided pretty conclusive evidence? Scales can be expanded to look even more closely at the graphical results and Genesis Tier1 Q match (experimental) might be worth a look. What about "X" match. Perhaps clutching at straws; how do they relate to other "tested" relatives... but I expect you've covered all bases.