Author Topic: Does 'kinsman' equal 'in-law'? Richard SEAGER and James AGUTTER  (Read 679 times)

Offline judb

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Does 'kinsman' equal 'in-law'? Richard SEAGER and James AGUTTER
« on: Sunday 30 December 18 06:37 GMT (UK) »
I have the will of James AGUTTER, fellmonger of Deptford, written in 1759 in which one of the executors is named as "my kinsman Richard SEAGER".  The will was proved in 1763 and administration granted to the other executor "my brother, William BROWNING" (which is also odd given the surname of the deceased).  I cannot make out exactly what is said about Richard SEAGER in the 'proving' section of the will - shown in attachment.

I can only find very scant details about Richard SEAGER.  His children were baptised between 1765 and 1776 at Butt Lane Independent, Deptford, with his residence given at the time as Greenwich Rd, occupation: tanner.  His wife Elizabeth died in 1788, described as a widow so he died between about 1776 and 1788.  I believe his wife may be the sister of James AGUTTER thus my query as to whether the description of Richard SEAGER as 'knisman' may be helpful here.

I can't find a marriage or burial for him and a few possible births but nothing I can verify.

Judith




DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

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Offline KGarrad

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Re: Does 'kinsman' equal 'in-law'? Richard SEAGER and James AGUTTER
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 30 December 18 08:29 GMT (UK) »
Collins English Dictionary says:

1. a blood relation or a relation by marriage
2. a member of the same race, tribe, or ethnic stock
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

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Online Gadget

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Re: Does 'kinsman' equal 'in-law'? Richard SEAGER and James AGUTTER
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 30 December 18 09:30 GMT (UK) »
In laws are affines


Gadget
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Online Edward Scott

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Re: Does 'kinsman' equal 'in-law'? Richard SEAGER and James AGUTTER
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 30 December 18 10:42 GMT (UK) »
"my brother, William BROWNING" could mean brother in law but it could also mean step brother, ie common mother with 2+ marriages

Edward
Scott - Lincolnshire
Jobson - Lincolnshire, Suffolk
Needham - Lincolnshire
Wayet - Lincolnshire

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Offline Bookbox

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Re: Does 'kinsman' equal 'in-law'? Richard SEAGER and James AGUTTER
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 30 December 18 11:45 GMT (UK) »
I cannot make out exactly what is said about Richard SEAGER in the 'proving' section of the will - shown in attachment.

I'm afraid it doesn't help - it's standard wording for a probate clause.

... named in the said Will to whom Administration was granted
of all and Singular the Goods Chattels and Credits of the deceased
having been first sworn duly to Administer  Power reserved
of making the like Grant to Richard Seager the other
Executor when he shall apply for the same. Ex(amine)d


Offline judb

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Re: Does 'kinsman' equal 'in-law'? Richard SEAGER and James AGUTTER
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 30 December 18 11:51 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for replies; so Richard could be "a blood relation or a relation by marriage".

Thanks, Bookbox for your reply re the attachment.

So what does it mean by:
Power reserved of making the like Grant to Richard Seager the other Executor when he shall apply for the same

I'm assuming it means that Richard SEAGER hadn't applied for the administration of his duties as executor, but could still apply. 

Thanks again, Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

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Offline Bookbox

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Re: Does 'kinsman' equal 'in-law'? Richard SEAGER and James AGUTTER
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 30 December 18 11:58 GMT (UK) »
I'm assuming it means that Richard SEAGER hadn't applied for the administration of his duties as executor, but could still apply. 

Yes, precisely.

Online goldie61

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Re: Does 'kinsman' equal 'in-law'? Richard SEAGER and James AGUTTER
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 30 December 18 20:23 GMT (UK) »
If Richard Seagar's wife was Elizabeth Agutter, the sister of James Agutter, then Richard would certainly have been a 'kinsman'. He would have been his brother in law.
Presumably you have looked for a will of for Richard Seagar and/or his wife Elizabeth. (or any other Seagars in the time frame). If she was a widow, she would have been able to make a will - married women were not.

By the way Gadget, in all the hundreds of wills I've seen, I've never come across the term 'affines'.
Is it used in a particular way or place?
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline judb

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Re: Does 'kinsman' equal 'in-law'? Richard SEAGER and James AGUTTER
« Reply #8 on: Monday 31 December 18 07:03 GMT (UK) »
Have looked at the will for Elizabeth SEAGER, widow, written 1788 and no help there although her executors were James AGUTTER (son of the James whose will I have mentioned above) and a John ASHDOWN, bricklayer of Brasted.  A Thomas AGUTTER was a witness to the will.  So there is definitely a connection with the AGUTTER family but I just can't nail it down!

I cannot find a suitable will for Richard SEAGER, and as I said - no marriage, birth or death.    :-\  Elizabeth's will doesn't mention that she owns any real property but there is a diamond ring, gold watch and a dozen or so lots of silver so she was not poor.

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk