Author Topic: Mystery about Great Great Grandfather  (Read 1285 times)

Offline mikegh1109

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Mystery about Great Great Grandfather
« on: Monday 31 December 18 15:04 GMT (UK) »
For me an amateur this has me stumped but maybe someone more experienced can help out.  My great grandfather was William Hollis, born Etwall Derbyshire in 1853.  From his marriage certificate of 1882 I know his father was George Hollis, a joiner.  I recently got William's birth certificate in which his mother's name is Hannah Hollis but the boxes for the name of the father and father's profession are blank. I realise this could mean that William was illegitimate, but why would his mother Hannah register herself as Hannah Hollis if she wasn't married to George at the time? Or is there another reason why the father's boxes are blank?  Many thanks.

Mike

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Offline josey

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Re: Mystery about Great Great Grandfather
« Reply #1 on: Monday 31 December 18 15:08 GMT (UK) »
Welocme to rootschat  :).

I suspect that the probability is that William SAID his father was George Hollis; often illegitimate children gave a grandfather's name or a fictitious name as father on a marriage certificate.

Have you found Hannah on censuses before William's birth?
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

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Offline Wendy2305

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Re: Mystery about Great Great Grandfather
« Reply #2 on: Monday 31 December 18 15:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi and welcome to Roots chat one reason could be Hollis was Hannah's maiden name and William could have supplied a father figure name and occupation stepfather uncle or grandfather or could have made it up to cover up that he was illegitimate
As for the father's name being blank on the birth cert unless the father accompanied the mother and registered the birth with her his name couldn't be added if they weren't married

Offline ThrelfallYorky

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Re: Mystery about Great Great Grandfather
« Reply #3 on: Monday 31 December 18 15:16 GMT (UK) »
Yes, if you find Hannah (and her son, of course) in censuses earlier and later, that should sort it out.
If in 1851 and 1841 Hannah is Hollis, then that's her maiden name.
Finding both Hannah and her son in later censuses can help narrow down her birth year.
If you find Hannah with her father as George Hollis, it doesn't imply incest, but that William used his name later as father, either because he was brought up as Hannah's sibling, because he thought of George as his father rather than Grandfather, or simply because he didn't wish on marriage to draw attention to his lack of father.
Don't fret, we all have problems like that encountered at an early stage.
Threlfall (Southport), Isherwood (lancs & Canada), Newbould + Topliss(Derby), Keating & Cummins (Ireland + lancs), Fisher, Strong& Casson (all Cumberland) & Downie & Bowie, Linlithgow area Scotland . Also interested in Leigh& Burrows,(Lancashire) Griffiths (Shropshire & lancs), Leaver (Lancs/Yorks) & Anderson(Cumberland and very elusive)

Offline josey

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Re: Mystery about Great Great Grandfather
« Reply #4 on: Monday 31 December 18 15:17 GMT (UK) »
A possibility - there may be a connection to a Pegg family [head is George]

1851 HO107; Piece: 2011; Folio: 262; Page: 23
George Pegg   45
Sarah Pegg   44
Hannah Pegg   15
James Pegg   22
Ann Pegg   23
Ann Bottom   69

1861 RG 9; Piece: 1960; Folio: 33; Page: 20
George Pegg   55
Sarah Pegg   53
Herbert Brooke   49 [should be 29] son in law
Hannah Brooke   24 daughter
Sarah Brooke   2
Fanny Brooke   7/12
William Hollis   8 visitor

1871 RG10; Piece: 2898; Folio: 37; Page: 22
George Pegg   66
Hannah Brooks   34
Frances Brookes   9
William Hollis   18 lodger
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline ThrelfallYorky

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Re: Mystery about Great Great Grandfather
« Reply #5 on: Monday 31 December 18 15:20 GMT (UK) »
Oh, and welcome to Rootschat. You'll find some real experts ( not me!) who will be able to help you to get really stuck in to family history.
Threlfall (Southport), Isherwood (lancs & Canada), Newbould + Topliss(Derby), Keating & Cummins (Ireland + lancs), Fisher, Strong& Casson (all Cumberland) & Downie & Bowie, Linlithgow area Scotland . Also interested in Leigh& Burrows,(Lancashire) Griffiths (Shropshire & lancs), Leaver (Lancs/Yorks) & Anderson(Cumberland and very elusive)

Offline avm228

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Re: Mystery about Great Great Grandfather
« Reply #6 on: Monday 31 December 18 15:23 GMT (UK) »
Welcome from me too.

Herbert Brooks married Hannah Pegg, Sep qtr 1857 Burton in Trent.

Perhaps Hannah Pegg was the mother & she’d had William by George Hollis without marrying him?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline josey

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Re: Mystery about Great Great Grandfather
« Reply #7 on: Monday 31 December 18 15:24 GMT (UK) »
Yes I agree; a baptism would be a good find.

ADDED: Found it
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KB61-QYK
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline avm228

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Re: Mystery about Great Great Grandfather
« Reply #8 on: Monday 31 December 18 15:36 GMT (UK) »
Yes I agree; a baptism would be a good find.

ADDED: Found it
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KB61-QYK

That is a good find.

Hannah was baptised 31 July 1836 at Etwall as Hannah Pegge, daughter of George and Sarah.  So she would have been about 16 or 17 when William was born.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)