Author Topic: Cr 10 seaman history  (Read 593 times)

Offline Kayakjock

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Cr 10 seaman history
« on: Wednesday 09 January 19 20:36 GMT (UK) »
All,

This is my first post as judt registered this minute after finding this forum discussing cr 10 which  I only discovered existed when looking for info on cr 2.   A friend pulled up the cr2 from findmypast and it has a number which seems to read Dis. A R 15511 not sure if an R and has date of engagement 5 nov 1926 and ship's name is
Montnairn which was at that time sailing under can pacific line.
The cr 1, has his name Charles Douglas Ross Merry dob 1903 and bottom printed line reads
(M4200) 11302/122 50m 9/21 1941 G&S 151 2
Reverse has declaration: I hereby certify that I have not hitherto received a Continuous certificate of discharge for the following reason: 1st ship previous voyage Disc. SS Montnairn
Dated 29 nov 1926 MMO office stamp.

So I am thoroughly confused as I don't know how long he was a seaman, I do know firsthand that he had at least once reached Montreal or Quebec but when that happened I have no idea.

Would love to know more about his early life so if anyone has any helpful info that might lead me to discover the facts and understand what these records are telling us (cr1, cr2) the discrepancy between dates and if tgere is a cr 10 with a photo out there I would love to hear from you.  Thanks for reading and hopefully someone knows more.
Cheers
KayakjockGD4ENB

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Offline seaweed

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Re: Cr 10 seaman history
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 10 January 19 15:45 GMT (UK) »
Could you post the documents you refer to as an attachment?
You wrote "A friend pulled up the cr2 from findmypast and it has a number which seems to read Dis. A R 15511 not sure if an R"

This is his Discharge A Number, R15511. This number is unique to him.

The ship MONTNAIRN, Official number 144402. Was as you suggest a Canadian Pacific vessel in 1926.
Her 1926 Crew Agreements are available from the Maritime History Archive, Memorial University of Newfoundland.
https://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=144402
You can order this from MUN. Be sure to tell them you only need details on your man. (Quote his Name ad DIS A Number)  Specifically between 1st and 29th of November 1926. This should give you some background information on his Merchant Navy Career. When and where he joined the MONTNAIRN, when and where he was discharged. Together with his Last address and should tell you the name of his previous ship, if indeed he had one but from what you have said, I believe he was a one trip wonder. This may be the one voyage which sees him in Montreal or Quebec.


Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

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Offline Kayakjock

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Re: Cr 10 seaman history
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 10 January 19 17:14 GMT (UK) »
Hi Seaweed,

Thank you for your quick reply and wonderful insights, I am attempting to send jpg's of cr1 and cr2 but took several attempts to just get this far so hopefully will get it figured out..

The Montnairn was scrapped 1929 having sailed under multiple names so you may well be right about a short lived career afloat.   I believe you mentioned in a post that cr10 contains photo of seaman.  Is that to be found at the Newfie archive you mentioned?

Kayakjock

Offline seaweed

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Re: Cr 10 seaman history
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 10 January 19 18:58 GMT (UK) »
Seems he sailed just a little while after on another CP ship METAGAMA official number 136791.
Her 1926 Crew Agreements and Logbooks are at MUN Copies at The British National Archives Kew. Search via Official number.

Photographs of Seamen.
Without boring you with the detail in 1918 the British Government perceived a threat from the Irish Nationlist movement. They decreed that a photograph of the seaman should be attached to the CR10 for security reasons (Some hope) This practice lasted from 1918 till 1921. So nothing in Newfoundland.

I have asked poster HMac for his comments on the CR1 and CR2. More sets of eyes the better.
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

Offline HMac

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Re: Cr 10 seaman history
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 10 January 19 19:50 GMT (UK) »
I have looked at both cards and I would agree with seaweed.
He will not have a CR10 card - and therefore no photo - as he would need to have started his service between 1918-1921.
The CR cards from the Fourth Register of Seamen do have mistakes, omissions and many have not survived. The CR1 is usually completed when applying for a discharge book or a renewal of same. The CR2 would record all foreign voyages but if the seaman was employed in the Home Trade areas only then those voyages would not be recorded on the CR2.

Regards
Hugh
Merchant Navy Research
ss CITY OF CAIRO

Offline Kayakjock

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Re: Cr 10 seaman history
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 10 January 19 20:36 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Seaweed and HMac for your comments!

Am I correct in thinking you have actually found dad's name as sailing on the Metagama? A quick look for info on her shows she was badly damaged in a collision off Newfoundland in 1924 so presumably she resumed service later.   On the cr1 does the 1941 date on bottom line mean a discharge was filed then?  If his initial engagement was 1926 that's 15 years, he married in '35 and I doubt he would still be at sea after.  Is there a document which would detail all voyages?

Kayakjock

Offline seaweed

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Re: Cr 10 seaman history
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 10 January 19 20:58 GMT (UK) »
look at the back of the card CR2. The number 136791, is the official number of METAGAMA.

Forget the 1941 reference on the card CR1. It is of no significance.

There is no document which gives details of all his voyages apart from form CR2. That did not happen until the Fifth Register of Merchant Seamen.

Logbooks, Crew Agreements and CR1 and CR2 are the only real thing to look at during the period your man appears to have been at sea. Maybe a case of out on the MONTNAIRN. Back on the METAGAMA. Get hold of the relevent Crew Agreements.
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

Offline Kayakjock

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Re: Cr 10 seaman history
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 10 January 19 22:03 GMT (UK) »
Sorry Seaweed, missed seeing that number !  Will try to obtain the crew agreements as you suggest. Thanks for explaning the documentation.

Cheers
Kayakjock

Offline Kayakjock

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Re: Cr 10 seaman history
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 27 January 19 21:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi Seaweed,

Just an update on my original query and a supplementary question if I may.

As you said he sailed on 2 vesels, the Metagama on the 29 sep 1926 arriving Montreal 4 oct.  Then sailed on Montnairn 5 nov 1926 arriving Quebec on 14 nov 1926. Engineer's boy on first, steward's boy on second, pay the same! All this from the source you suggested, thanks!

Is the cr2 issued once only, and I can assume that was the extent of his time at sea?

Also could you look at attached excerpt from crew agreement, notice the initials ab, his is the only one like that on both ship's crew  agreements and I wondered what is its significance?

Thank you!

Doug