Author Topic: Does anyone recognise this war memorial?  (Read 1261 times)

Offline arthurk

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,450
    • View Profile
Re: Does anyone recognise this war memorial?
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 10 January 19 16:28 GMT (UK) »
He's shown in a transcript on the Yorkshire Indexers site as having been buried in Woodhouse Cemetery. This is confirmed by information on the CWGC site, but this also mentions the memorial at Lawnswood. The documents provided by the CWGC seem to suggest his body was exhumed and removed to Lawnswood in 1927, but in that case would there be some record of him there as well? The inscription on the plaque on the memorial wall at Lawnswood seems to suggest he may now be buried there.

See these links for details of the above (though some YI stuff is available only by subscription):

http://www.yorkshireindexers.info/forum/db/burials.php?tabid=40&c=10&id=73044

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/410433/bailey,-/

https://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/46214/leeds-(lawnswood)-cemetery/

I did wonder if your picture might be a war memorial in Woodhouse Cemetery, but haven't found any pictures of one, if there ever was one. The cemetery is now closed - more info at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodhouse_Cemetery

The Yorkshire Indexers site mentions an address of 16 Banstead Grove. That gets a mention in the comments on a photo at Leodis:

http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?resourceIdentifier=2010524_170769&DISPLAY=FULL

Finally, since he was serving with a Canadian regiment, I also wondered if it might be a memorial in a Canadian war cemetery. I haven't looked for any pictures, but there's a list of them at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_war_cemeteries
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline LizzieW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,293
    • View Profile
Re: Does anyone recognise this war memorial?
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 10 January 19 19:20 GMT (UK) »

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline arthurk

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,450
    • View Profile
Re: Does anyone recognise this war memorial?
« Reply #11 on: Friday 11 January 19 11:46 GMT (UK) »
Still puzzling over this, though I don't feel I'm getting anywhere much.

Herbert's attestation papers are available on the Canadian National Archives site, and show that he signed up in Winnipeg, but was born in Leeds, and his mother Lydia was living at 6 Midgley View, Woodhouse.

If the story in my family is correct, that might preclude him being named on a cenotaph-type memorial in the UK, though I haven't seen one in Winnipeg that matches.

There seems little doubt that he was buried in Woodhouse, and whether he was exhumed and reburied or not, the memorial at Lawnswood looks like a replacement for a previous grave marker at Woodhouse. But that still doesn't help to identify the memorial in your photo, I'm afraid.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline LizzieW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,293
    • View Profile
Re: Does anyone recognise this war memorial?
« Reply #12 on: Friday 11 January 19 12:15 GMT (UK) »
arthurk

Sorry, I was sure I'd replied to your post yesterday saying that one of our sons had arrived unexpectedly (2 hours drive) to take me out for an early dinner (to celebrate my birthday last Saturday).  We arrived back about 7.15pm which is when I made the quick response to Flattybasher9 and then to you, so I have no idea where that post has gone.

Anyway, what I said was that I would look at the links you gave me today.  Unfortunately, there is a problem with the YorkshireIndexers.  A message comes up including "Our Hosting Company recently had a power outage. They are currently attempting to fix the problem".   So I'll try that again later.

I had already seen the CWGC pages and my half 2nd cousin once removed  ::) (Her g.gran was the sister of the elder lady in the photos) has sent me photos of Lawnswood memorial as she recently went to see it.

Thank you for the Woodhouse Cemetery link, I wonder if the monument was there originally.  Perhaps I could write to Leeds University to see if they can help.

My only other thought is that I'm not sure the memorial in the photo I've posted shows  names on it, which I would normally expect on a WWI monument, but as I can't get the photo any clearer I can't be sure.  Also the dome on the top is unusual.

Thanks also for the link to the Canadian War cemeteries. 


Offline LizzieW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,293
    • View Profile
Re: Does anyone recognise this war memorial?
« Reply #13 on: Friday 11 January 19 12:22 GMT (UK) »
I'm doing a Google search for war memorials with domes  ::) but it's like looking for a needle in a haystack as most of the photos show domed structures, rather than this one which is an rectangle with a dome inset in the top of it.

I doubt it would be in Canada, especially as Herbert Bailey was English.  Also I cannot see my ancestors travelling to Canada just to visit a monument and lay a wreath prior to 1954 when the eldest lady died aged 78.  My guess is she's in her 50s in the photograph, so around the end of WW1.

I think Woodhouse Cemetery seems to be the answer and that the monument was either moved elsewhere or destroyed.

I'll pass this info onto my relative who still lives in Yorkshire, so she will be able to follow things up better than I can from a distance. 

Thank you for your help.

Offline LizzieW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,293
    • View Profile
Re: Does anyone recognise this war memorial?
« Reply #14 on: Friday 11 January 19 12:59 GMT (UK) »
Arthur - the reports I've read suggest that no bodies were exhumed and that over 100,000 (since the 1800s) are still underneath St George's Field which is now part of Leeds University campus.

www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/the-picturesque-leeds-beauty-spot-is-final-resting-place-for-100-000-people-1-9351071

Offline dublin1850

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 474
  • New to genealogy -a great lover of Dublin history
    • View Profile
Re: Does anyone recognise this war memorial?
« Reply #15 on: Friday 11 January 19 13:48 GMT (UK) »
Large file pertaining to him available to download in pdf format from Canadian archives.
https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/search.aspx
Pension payments, where he served, all that sort of stuff. Great quality images.
Includes hospital records.
Coffey, Cummins, Cummins [Skirke, Laois], Curran, Dillon [Clare], Fogarty [Garran, Laois/Tipp], Hughes, Keshan (Keeshan), Loughman [Killadooley, Laois], Mallon [Armagh], Malone, Markham [Caherkine, Clare], McKeon(e) [Sligo/Kilkenny/Waterford], McNamara, Meagher, Prescott [Kilkenny/Waterford/Wexford?], Rafferty, Ryan, Sullivan, Tobin
GEDMatch: T665306 tested with Family Tree DNA
GEDCOM file: 1980344

Offline arthurk

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,450
    • View Profile
Re: Does anyone recognise this war memorial?
« Reply #16 on: Friday 11 January 19 14:05 GMT (UK) »
Another couple of thoughts:

First, this memorial doesn't appear to have the names of individual soldiers on it, but a longer inscription - perhaps commemorating a regiment or the workers in a particular company? The line before the bottom seems to start with "17th". Or, if there were individual names, would the ladies have posed where Herbert's could be clearly seen?

Second, the occasion: given the weather and the dresses, could it have been Herbert's birthday? (13 May according to the Canadian papers)

It's a bit odd about Yorkshire Indexers - they did have problems a while back, but I can get in OK. However, I normally stay logged in there, but after logging out just now I found that the transcription I linked to is for signed in members (or subscribers?) only. I landed on a page which had warnings about a few recent issues, and when I then logged in I got straight to the transcription. In this case, you haven't missed a lot, since it's a transcript of the register entry (image) that Malky linked to.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Flattybasher9

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,046
  • Manners cost nothing, and are worth the effort.
    • View Profile
Re: Does anyone recognise this war memorial?
« Reply #17 on: Friday 11 January 19 16:30 GMT (UK) »
I have went through the 1251 memorial photographs from Francis Frith but cannot find a resemblance in any of them.

Malky