Author Topic: John William Banks (b. abt 1820, in Southwark St Olave Parish, Surrey  (Read 2627 times)

Offline eaasland

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Re: John William Banks (b. abt 1820, in Southwark St Olave Parish, Surrey
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 12 January 19 16:52 GMT (UK) »
There is always the possibility he is illegitimate and that he has made up his fathers name/occupation
He has the same first name as John and same occupation as Ann's father. He would not have had to prove any of it.  :-\

Yes, sadly, I hope that that is not the case. I have noticed that the Gardner family (with Ann' father Joseph Gardner also a lighterman) also lived on John Street (supposedly now Alaska Street, off Waterloo). My assumption of course is that is how John and Ann met (either through their fathers as lightermen or because they lived on the same street, or both).

Thanks everyone for your help, very much appreciate your help in finding this needle in a haystack!

Offline keyboard86

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Re: John William Banks (b. abt 1820, in Southwark St Olave Parish, Surrey
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 13 January 19 19:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi again, took another route, is their any  record of a Joseph Gardner occ Lighterman the father of Ann Gardner b c 1820 as the only mention I could locate was the marriage of a Joseph Gardner occ Lighterman Father Joseph occ Lighterman 21st July 1849 All Saints, Rotherhithe to Charlotte Looker.
1851 HO107/1583/158/44

Following first child George Joseph Gardner b c 1850 Rotherhithe leads to odd results?
Keyboard86

PS can locate baptisms for a Joseph b 3rd July 1812 and Edwin born 30th October 1810 who where baptised 3rd July 1814 St Mary Rotherhithe Father Joseph Gardner occ Lighterman Mother Mary address Princes Street.
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

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Offline eaasland

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Re: John William Banks (b. abt 1820, in Southwark St Olave Parish, Surrey
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 13 January 19 21:28 GMT (UK) »
Is their any  record of a Joseph Gardner occ Lighterman the father of Ann Gardner b c 1820

Hi, I have Joseph Gardner occ lighterman (b. abt 1790) marrying Francis (Scott?) about 1811. In 1841, he is a lighterman living on Charles Street in Bermondsey. He has an apprentice, Charles Tupper, living with them and the children are:

Joseph   Gardiner   52   1789   Surrey (Sr)
Joseph   Gardiner   30   1811   Surrey (Jr)
Charles   Tupper   17   1824   Surrey (apprentice lighterman)
Francis   Gardner   50   1791   Surrey (Sr's wife)
Ann          Gardner   23   1818   Surrey (wife of John William Banks, b. abt 1820)
Rebecca   Gardner   7   1834   Surrey (Ann's sister?)
Frances   Gardner   9   1832 Surrey (Ann's sister?)
Elizabeth   Scott           72   1769   Surrey (Francis's mother?)

I cannot prove that the Ann above is "my" Ann, at least not yet.

Offline eaasland

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Re: John William Banks (b. abt 1820, in Southwark St Olave Parish, Surrey
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 13 January 19 21:38 GMT (UK) »
I found this from the Lightermen Records:

First name(s)   Joseph Jnr
Last name   Gardner
Birth year   -
Place   Horsleydown
Year   1830
Bound date   12 Aug 1830
Master's first name(s)   Joseph
Master's last name   Gardner Snr.
Where from notes   Horsleydown
Source   
Binding Records 1692-1949
Record set   Thames Watermen & Lightermen 1688-2010
Category   Education & work
Subcategory   Occupations
Collections from   England, Great Britain



Offline keyboard86

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Re: John William Banks (b. abt 1820, in Southwark St Olave Parish, Surrey
« Reply #22 on: Monday 14 January 19 20:25 GMT (UK) »
Hi again, the baptism of Rebecca Gardner was born 15th February 1834 baptised 14th March 1834 Father Joseph occ Lighterman Mother Frances address John St.
Rebecca & Frances b 1832 are in Kent in 1851 HO107/1618/186/19 Rebecca, HO107/1618/184/15 Frances.
Keyboard86
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline eaasland

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Re: John William Banks (b. abt 1820, in Southwark St Olave Parish, Surrey
« Reply #23 on: Monday 14 January 19 23:26 GMT (UK) »
Thank you, that's another step forward. More to build on at least.


Offline K Rees

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Re: John William Banks (b. abt 1820, in Southwark St Olave Parish, Surrey
« Reply #24 on: Friday 10 November 23 08:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi all
I am also researching John William Banks (1787-1868) and I have posted another Rootschat message under James Cooper Banks. I received a reply as to his address in Mill Street Bermondsey in 1841 and his occupation was that of a waterman; maybe this is a connecting factor to the John Banks b, 21 Feb 1821 who married Ann Gardner, the daughter of a waterman, the original post of this thread.

I am working on a theory that shoemaker John William Banks, middle name of William from a daughter's marriage, and formerly bap 21 Oct 1787 East Ham Essex, may have had three marriages and believe it or not, to three different brides named Sarah.
I believe that he may have finished his apprenticeship in 1807. James Cooper Banks was bp. James Cooper Banks 15 Nov 1807 Bermondsey. One month later, Henry Banks, his brother, married Ann Rugg 28 Dec 1807 Rotherhithe. The witnesses were John Banks and Richard Cooper.
John Banks married another Sarah (maybe Sarah Easter  1816) and they bap a son Samuel Cooper Banks on 13 Apr 1817 back in his village church of St. Mary East Ham and on the same day St. Mary in Bermondsey.
The Sarah Elizabeth Unknown who is the mother of the above John Banks b 21 Feb 1821 was too young (b c1800) and she had 7 chn in St. Olave with John William Banks, the cordwainer/shoemaker.
Keith
Rees: innkeeper/farmer/solicitor, Haverfordwest, Wales; Menzies: innkeeper, Glen Lyon, Scotland;
Tomkins: merchants, London;  Lee:  farmers, Watford Village, Northamptonshire; Pocock, teachers, Bristol; Grace: doctors, cricketers, Gloucestershire; Day: lithographers, London; Clark:  teachers, Folkstone.
Banks: farmer/curriers/shoemakers, East Ham, Bermondsey, East End