Author Topic: Restoration please. Henry Robinson and John Jackson. Eliza Fernley Crew.  (Read 1677 times)

Offline Treetotal

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 28,444
    • View Profile
Re: Restoration please. Henry Robinson and John Jackson. Eliza Fernley Crew.
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 13 January 19 13:30 GMT (UK) »
Their coat buttons are fastened the wrong way now aren't they Pat?
Carol
CAPES Hull. KIRK  Leeds, Hull. JONES  Wales,  Lancashire. CARROLL Ireland, Lancashire, U.S.A. BROUGHTON Leicester, Goole, Hull BORRILL  Lincolnshire, Durham, Hull. GROOM  Wishbech, Hull. ANTHONY St. John's Nfld. BUCKNALL Lincolnshire, Hull. BUTT Harbour Grace, Newfoundland. PARSONS  Western Bay, Newfoundland. MONAGHAN  Ireland, U.S.A. PERRY Cheshire, Liverpool.
 
RESTORERS:PLEASE DO NOT USE MY RESTORES WITHOUT PRIOR PERMISSION - THANK YOU

Offline Trishanne

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,247
    • View Profile
Re: Restoration please. Henry Robinson and John Jackson. Eliza Fernley Crew.
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 13 January 19 15:09 GMT (UK) »
Yes Carol, their buttons were the wrong way round  ::). I have now flipped this one and cleaned it up a bit.
Pat
Bownass - Lancashire & Westmorland
Hoggarth - Lancashire & Westmorland
Jackson- Lancaster
Waller - Dent, Yorkshire dales
Omerod - Lancashire
Redburn - Lancashire
Evans - Hereford

RESTORERS please do not use my restores without my permission THANK YOU

Offline aus*jen

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 804
    • View Profile
Re: Restoration please. Henry Robinson and John Jackson. Eliza Fernley Crew.
« Reply #11 on: Monday 14 January 19 04:48 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jon,   After a close look at your Ambrotype I would have to agree with Carol
             and Jim that the subjects of the picture may not be the surviving lifeboatmen of the
             'Eliza Fernley'  Have read the link describing the disaster and the crew of the lifeboats
             were "fishermen by trade".  The hand of the young man draped on the shoulder appears
             well groomed and not the hand of a hard working fisherman.  The clothing too does not
             appear typical with cravat type ties with pins and shiny boots.  Not the type of clothing
             you would expect fishermen to wear even for 'Sunday best'.  Just an opinion, I am not
             an expert, but I feel this is not an image of 2 fishermen.

Jen.
             
             
Boland   NSW, Australia
Gibbs   S.Aust. & Queensland
Jennings NSW, Australia
Page  Coventry UK, Queensland Aust.
Sellars (Sellard) Gloucestershire
Kirby  Lechlade, Gloucestershire
Hampshire  Stepney, Middlesex & Hampshire
Goddard,  Isle of Wight
Cushen, Isle of Wight
Keys,  Tyrone Ireland & NSW Australia

Offline --Jon--

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 41
    • View Profile
Re: Restoration please. Henry Robinson and John Jackson. Eliza Fernley Crew.
« Reply #12 on: Monday 14 January 19 16:20 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all for your work, time and thoughts.
I'm glad I did say believed to be because I realise we cannot be sure.
That is the way it is displayed in Southport.
John Jackson is my 2nd cousin and Henry Robinson is my 8th cousin, both 4x removed.
Soon after the tragedy both men were given large payouts from a disaster fund raised for the families of the deceased.
Both bought houses on the same road as my 3x great grandma Alice (Ralph Peters widow).
They also received the equivalent of an average weekly wage paid for life.
They were not poor fishermen in 1890.
Our ancestors were poor and are recorded as fishing the same coastline for centuries.
Some of my couples of interest-
North Meols--Henry Wright d1782, married 21/05/1754, Elen Brekell b1733, 2nd wife married 9/09/1765, Alice Leigh b1733.
John Howard buried 13/12/1619, marriage date unknown to Ann, buried 1628.
William Rigby & Ann Holmes, married 31/07/1764.
Ormskirk- John Crompton, 1805/1866, married 22/08/1825,  Mary Johnson, 1803/1866.
John Molyneux b1704, married 31/01/1731, Mary Guy b1711.
Rochdale-- John Wolfenden 1667/1707, married 4/12/1692, Mary Holle, b1662


Offline --Jon--

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 41
    • View Profile
Re: Restoration please. Henry Robinson and John Jackson. Eliza Fernley Crew.
« Reply #13 on: Monday 14 January 19 18:43 GMT (UK) »
I feel very lucky to of found my link back to these proud old fishing families. They have already been well researched by some of their outstanding local historians and genealogists.
I think their work on our shared history is amazing and I thank them sincerely.
As for the poor fishermen of old, yes they were considered poor by many standards. But it would appear on average they had a good life expectancy, if they didn't drown young.
Many of my great grandmother's and great aunts are recorded as living well into their 80's and 90's during times of much shorter life expectancy in the northern towns and cities.
I've read that fact was a big part in the advertising draw to the craze for sea-bathing during Georgian times. They believed it could have almost magical properties.
Ironically, I believe, it was that draw to the sea from the city and rush of wealth to the area that eventually pushed the ancient self sufficient fishing families from their homes beside the dunes.
Their tiny hamlets of South-Haws and Haws-Side were lost as the town of Southport was born and grew around them. Over the course of just a few decades almost all of the local fishermen were moved from their cottages into terrace houses well away from the prime seafront location.
My family moved to Boundary St.

I've added this link to Alice Peters (nee Wright) on a website I trust incase anyone is interested

Credit to
http://www.briangriffiths.co.uk/tng/getperson.php?personID=I16041&tree=BG_TREE
Some of my couples of interest-
North Meols--Henry Wright d1782, married 21/05/1754, Elen Brekell b1733, 2nd wife married 9/09/1765, Alice Leigh b1733.
John Howard buried 13/12/1619, marriage date unknown to Ann, buried 1628.
William Rigby & Ann Holmes, married 31/07/1764.
Ormskirk- John Crompton, 1805/1866, married 22/08/1825,  Mary Johnson, 1803/1866.
John Molyneux b1704, married 31/01/1731, Mary Guy b1711.
Rochdale-- John Wolfenden 1667/1707, married 4/12/1692, Mary Holle, b1662

Offline aus*jen

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 804
    • View Profile
Re: Restoration please. Henry Robinson and John Jackson. Eliza Fernley Crew.
« Reply #14 on: Monday 14 January 19 23:36 GMT (UK) »
Hello Jon,  After reading your informative posts today (#12,13) I looked again online and came
                across some photos of John Jackson and Henry Robinson most likely taken after the
                tragedy in 1886.  The library of nineteenth-century photography has 2 portraits in
                rescue clothing and the Southport offshore rescue trust has 2 photos.  Perhaps a
                R'chatter with more skills can provide a link to these photos. 

                Looking at these photos closely I will amend my previous comments re your Ambrotype.
                I think there are enough similarities in the mature photos to suggest that the Ambrotype
                picture could in fact be John Jackson and Henry Robinson.  The hand of John Jackson on
                the right of your picture is very similar to the hand in the portrait in rescue clothing.
                Perhaps if you amended the date of 1890 in your post on Wikimedia to the dates
                suggested by Jim you would be close to the date when that portrait was taken.  A look
                at the birthdates for John Jackson and Henry Robinson would confirm whether the young
                men in your Ambrotype could be them.  They appear to be in their late 20's, early 30's.
                Birthdates of late 1820's to early 1830's might be about right.  They appear to be in their
                50's in the mature photos.
Regards,
Jen.
           
             
Boland   NSW, Australia
Gibbs   S.Aust. & Queensland
Jennings NSW, Australia
Page  Coventry UK, Queensland Aust.
Sellars (Sellard) Gloucestershire
Kirby  Lechlade, Gloucestershire
Hampshire  Stepney, Middlesex & Hampshire
Goddard,  Isle of Wight
Cushen, Isle of Wight
Keys,  Tyrone Ireland & NSW Australia

Offline --Jon--

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 41
    • View Profile
Re: Restoration please. Henry Robinson and John Jackson. Eliza Fernley Crew.
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 15 January 19 00:53 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Jen for taking the time to look again.
I apologise for not posting more information already.
The dating makes for a mystery.
John Jackson 1851-1922
Henry Robinson 1859-1938
Photo dating and believed identification can not possibly both be right so I'm puzzled.
Others have amazingly noticed the possible missing finger clue but I'm not sure how much can be read into that.
I believe it was common for fishermen to lose a finger, or at least for it to look that way in photos.
I wonder if I maybe have a simple explanation, or at least a good theory to explain the missing fingers. A problem that sadly runs in my family. I don't think it's a fishing injury.
My grandfather worked in insurance but he still lost the fingers.
Dupuytren's contracture, aka Viking Disease.
https://thisisdupuytrens.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAg_HhBRDNARIsAGHLV53x2AOuVGcOdf1aDP_drzdhNhmCZy1FB-h1BJpyv1DonAWJMUJJ8soaAt6mEALw_wcB

Some of my couples of interest-
North Meols--Henry Wright d1782, married 21/05/1754, Elen Brekell b1733, 2nd wife married 9/09/1765, Alice Leigh b1733.
John Howard buried 13/12/1619, marriage date unknown to Ann, buried 1628.
William Rigby & Ann Holmes, married 31/07/1764.
Ormskirk- John Crompton, 1805/1866, married 22/08/1825,  Mary Johnson, 1803/1866.
John Molyneux b1704, married 31/01/1731, Mary Guy b1711.
Rochdale-- John Wolfenden 1667/1707, married 4/12/1692, Mary Holle, b1662

Offline aus*jen

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 804
    • View Profile
Re: Restoration please. Henry Robinson and John Jackson. Eliza Fernley Crew.
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 15 January 19 03:30 GMT (UK) »
I'm puzzled too Jon.  The d.o.b. for the two men indicate John Jackson was 35 in 1886 and Henry
Robinson 27, much the same ages as the young men in the Ambrotype ???  It would be interesting
to know when the more mature photos on the Library of nineteenth-century photography website
were taken, presumably before 1900.  Possibly there were newspaper reports with photographs which featured the two men for comparison.

I don't see any evidence of missing fingers, more a shortening of the fingers in the nail area on both men.

Jen.

Boland   NSW, Australia
Gibbs   S.Aust. & Queensland
Jennings NSW, Australia
Page  Coventry UK, Queensland Aust.
Sellars (Sellard) Gloucestershire
Kirby  Lechlade, Gloucestershire
Hampshire  Stepney, Middlesex & Hampshire
Goddard,  Isle of Wight
Cushen, Isle of Wight
Keys,  Tyrone Ireland & NSW Australia