Parents of John Connelly (abt 1827 - 1897)

[1JC]

Hi.

Could anyone with some experience in these matters help me find the parents of John Connelly (abt 1827 – 1897).

What I know about John is:
He married Janet Forsyth (a widow) on 6 February 1849 in Glasgow, Scotland (United Presbyterian church).
The record (from Scotlandspeople site): “John Connelly, Engraver in Glasgow & Janet Forsyth residing there, married 6th February by Mr John W. Borland one of the ministers of the United Presbyterian Church, Glasgow.”
They had three children:
-   John Forsyth Connelly, 11 April 1849, Glasgow.
-   Charles Connelly, 10 August 1851, Glasgow.
-   Janet Forsyth Connelly, 1 December 1853, Glasgow.
John’s occupation recorded at his marriage and birth of his 3 children was “Engraver”
The 1851 census for Glasgow has John and Janet at 262 High St, St Mungo, Lanarkshire, Scotland. John’s occupation is recorded as Machine Engraver and his place of Birth ENGLAND in 1827. John’s wife (Janet Connelly) and first child (John Forsyth Connelly) are both recorded as being born in Glasgow.
The 1861 census has John, a machine engraver,  born in 1827 in England. John, Janet and their three children are living at the West side of village of Thornliebank, Eastwood, Renfrewshire, Scotland.

In 1865 they immigrate to New Zealand and settle in Opotiki, Bay of Plenty.
John dies on 8 September 1897, aged 70. In the newspaper notice it states “On September 8, 1897, at his home. Opotiki. John Connelly, late engraver Manchester and Glasgow: aged 70. Deeply regretted by his family. – Manchester. Sheffield and Glasgow papers please copy."

Those are all the facts I know.

Based on the death notice and that the census records state that John was born in England, it could be possible that John was born and worked in Manchester (or Sheffield) before he moved to Glasgow
I have looked for the birth of John Connelly (with name variants) through the Manchester births/baptisms at Lancashire on line parish clerk with no success.
There is an interesting 1841 census record for the family of George (1801) and Elizabeth (1806) Connelly who were residing at Edge St, Manchester with their children John (1826 in Manchester) and George (1828 in Manchester) but I have not been able to link this to the John Connelly in Glasgow, also the name George does not crop up in family names.

So this is where I am stuck. There are trees on Ancestry.com that have John Connelly born in Thornybank, Glasgow in 1827 with no parents identified – I see no evidence for this.
Is there likely to be more detailed records of John’s marriage to Janet Forsyth (whose 1st marriage was to James Neilson) that would state who the parents of John were?
Is there another tack I could take to identify the birth and parents of John Connelly?

[wivenhoe]

"..In 1865 they immigrate to New Zealand "  Where do you see this...what ship did they arrive on?

Census Scotland 1861   Westside of Village of Thornliebank Eastwood Renfrewshire
CONNELY    John      34yr         machine engraver                     b. England
CONNELY    Janet     48r                                                          b. Glasgow
CONNELY    John      11yr         son  scholar                               b. Glasgow
CONNELY    Charles  9yr           son  scholar                               b. Glasgow
CONNELY    Janet     7mth        dau                                           b. Glasgow
FORSYTH    Mary      23yr         niece  calico examiner                b. Stirlingshire
WILSON     James     20yr         son  machine engraver               b. Glasgow

James WILSON is a relative.....FORSYTH  or CONNELLY?



   
Is this the family of your Charles CONNELLY?
   
1879/16519   CONNELLY   Hilda Jane Abbott
parents Mary Scott / Charles    

1881/17502   CONNELLY   Jessie Frances Maxwell
parents Mary Scott / Charles    

1884/8123   CONNELLY   Devine Bessie Mary
parents Mary Scott / Charles


1890/9704   CONNELLY   Colin Scott Forsyth
parents Mary Scott / Charles       
   

[1JC]

Thanks for the reply Wivenhoe.

The ship they arrived in NZ on was the "Viola" which arrived early April 1865. The passenger list has "Janet, James, John, Charles & Jessie Connelly" Janet jnr was known as Jessie and James was actually James Nielson (stepson of John).

Unfortunately, the 1861 census has a transcription error. It is actually James Neilson (not Wilson), son of Janet from her first marriage. Janet's first husband, James Neilson, died 14 May 1842 in Glasgow.

Yes, that is the family of my Charles Connelly. Colin Scott Forsyth Connelly was my grandfather.

Attached are John Connelly's gravestone and the plaque commemorating the arrival of the Viola (in Opotiki, I think)

[amondg]

Have you tried apprenticeship records, if he was an engraver he was taught the trade.

[trish1120]

Are no Parents named on his NZ Death Cert?

Trish

[1JC]

Thanks Amondy.

I had looked at apprenticeships using Ancestry and Findmypast and looked again just now. Nothing comes up. Are there any other databases that I should be looking at?

[1JC]

Thanks Trish. I feel a bit dumb for not thinking of that.

I have just ordered the death certificates for John and his wife, Janet. Fingers crossed that John's has his parents named - I don't think it is guaranteed but I should have thought of that. Thanks again.

[trish1120]

Your welcome, good luck. Being from NZ myself my certs I purchased have been invaluable

Let us know if his Parents names are there.

[1JC]

Disappointingly the 1897 death certificate for John Connelly, Engraver, was not useful.
Under Parents, it has: Father – Not Known, Mother – Not Known, Profession of father – Farmer.
Where Born: it has Manchester (which is consistent with the newspaper death notice in 1897)
Age: 70 (which implies birth year of 1827 – which is consistent with Scotland 1851 and 1861 census.

I mentioned before that John Connelly and his family came to New Zealand on the ship Viola in 1865, this is not correct. Two days ago I visited the New Zealand national archives in Wellington. I looked up the Waikatio Immigration Scheme as the “Viola” was one of the ships used to transport immigrants for that scheme. I found passengers, Connelly: Janet 40, James 20, John 14, Charles 12, Jessie 10 and beside them a note stating that they were “Family of a Waikato soldier”.
So I then looked for John Connelly on a ship before 1865 and found mention of a John Connelly passenger on the “Black Eagle” in 1861.
I then found a document titled Nominal and Descriptive Roll, First Waikato Militia Regiment, Roll, Variations of service and Index. In this document there is an entry for John Connelly…
Date of Attestation: 8 August 1863 at Auckland.
Where born Parish/County: Lincoln/Lincolnshire.
Trade or Calling: Engraver.
Age at enlistment: 38 (implies birth year of about 1825)
Size at enlistment Feet/Inches: 5/8
Boat arrived on: Black Eagle.
Discharged on 11 July 1866.
He was granted land in Opotiki (Lot 46 and 22) 50 + 10 acres.

So it would seem that this soldier of the Waikato militia was the John Connelly, husband of Janet who arrived on the Viola in 1865 with their children.
I have now looked through Lancashire and Lincolnshire births and census records (1841) with no obvious result.
Does anyone have any ideas where I should look next for the parents of John Connelly?