Manfred Ball (abt 1844 to 1915) Mansfield/South Normanton/Calow

[andyandmella]

Hi

Because several of us are researching Manfred Ball I have started a new thread.  I think we know he was born in 1844 and he definitely died in 1915.  He was married 3 times and had c. 12 children. 

I have requested a copy of his birth certificate so will post the details when I get them.

Thanks

Andy

[Newfloridian]

Will follow with interest. For continuity, our previous entries in this discussion can be found on pages 2 and 3 of the following Derbyshire thread:

William BETTISON: Who was his wife

Alan

[suzard]

I believe Manfred Ball was the illegitimate son of Lucy Ball
On his marriages no father's name is entered
this looks like him in 1851
Hill Top Attercliffe Yorks
Joseph England Head M 28 Miner Swanwick Derbys
Lucy wife 26 Normanton Derbys
MANFRED (surname entered as England) son6 S Normanton Derbys
George son 4 Swanwick Derbys
Eliza daughter 3 Swanwick Derbys
Thomas son4mths Attercliffe Yorks
HO107 2342 495 19

1861
15 Lings Row N Wingfield Derbys
Joseph England Head M 38 coal miner Swanwick
Lucy wife 36 S Normanton
MANFRED(England) son 16 coal miner S Normanton
George son 14 coal miner Swanwick
Olivia daughter 12 scholar Swanwick
Thomas son 10 coal miner Attercliffe Yorks
Emily daughter 8 Scholar N Wingfield
Harriet daughter 4 scholar N Wingfield
Abraham son 2 N Wingfield
Mary Ann daughter 2mths N Wingfield RG9 2527 8 9

there is a marriage reg FreeBMD
Dec qtr 1845 Mansfield reg district
Joseph England
on same page is Amy Ball (possibly this is a mistranscription of Lucy??)
15 1075

after 1851/61 census Manfred is entered as Ball -and on marriage

Marriage after Banns Parish Church Chesterfield
entry no 47
6 Feb 1865
Manfred Ball 21 bachelor Coal Miner Lordsmill St Chesterfield no father entered
Mary Walters 18 spinster Lordsmill Rd father Alexander Walters occ labourer
Manfred made his mark and Mary signed
witnesses William Saxton (made his mark) -he lived next door to Manfred in 1861
Sarah Sheldon signed


Marriage after Banns Parish Church Chesterfield
Page 236 entry 472
3 Feb 1880
Manfred Ball 35 widower Coal Miner Calow (no father entered)
Jemima Barber 29 spinster Calow father James Barber occ Miner
Manfred made his mark Jemima signed
witnesses Samuel Barber & Theresa Biggin

28 Jan 1899 Manfred married Jane Johnson

I have Balls from Somercoates in my (distant tree) My Grandfather was a Battison from Somercoates -so complicated as a Battison married a Bettison!!! I don't link up to Manfred as far as I know

Suz

[andyandmella]

Thanks very much.  I also was digging around and found the Amy Ball connection.  I'll wait and see what name is on his birth certificate but I'm hoping it's Lucy and Amy is a transcription error.

Regards

[andyandmella]

Hi Alan and everyone else. I've found this newspaper article which is of interest and confirms the Ball/England connection.

[Newfloridian]

That is fascinating: I hadn't seen that cutting. Also, to date I haven't considered Manfred's timeline in close detail. However do these follow in sequence?:

Death of Lucy England (his mother): Chesterfield 7b 348 (OND 1864)
Date of paternity cutting (Mary Walters): January 7th 1865
Marriage after Banns to Mary Walters: February 6th 1865

I guess that gets him out of paying maintenance in one way!

'Nuff said?

Alan

[andyandmella]

Hi everyone.  Manfred's birth certificate has arrived and it confirms his mother as Lucy Ball (not Amy as is on the register).  His birth was 19th October 1844  in South Normanton.  There is no father on the certificate.

By the time of his death Manfred owned a farm and left an estate worth about £100,000 so I think he did okay for himself. 

Regards

[Newfloridian]

That leads into the next question: who was Lucy Ball. We know that she died in 1864 and census returns suggest that she was born in 1825. There is a familysearch transcription for a possible baptism in that name which is slightly out (they quote July 13th 1825 whereas the Parish Record is written July 18th 1825). However this does note parents as Francis Ball (framework knitter) and Hannah.

So far, I have been unable to place this couple with certainty in my Ball database but there is a Francis Ball (aged 55 years, Coal miner) and a widower living in Lees Lane in 1861. That would give a year of birth about 1806. I haven't found a local marriage between Francis Ball and Hannah to correlate with the baptism of Lucy yet BUT there is a marriage between a Francis Ball and Frances Vardy in S Norm on Christmas Day 1827. A case of death of one spouse and recruitment of a second perhaps? Alternatively could she have been yet another child born prior to her parents marriage. I think I now have five generations in this particular timeline which share that claim to fame!!

Ongoing research strongly suggests that Francis was Lucy's father. However unraveling his own parentage and subsequent name history is highly complex. [PM me if you would like my further thoughts!]

Alan 

[Dizzifish]

Hello all.....

I see we can once again have access to view  the Derbyshire registers through familysearch. 

You need a free account and be signed in - https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1911752

I notice by 4.15pm today - they have been taken off again 

I see Francis & Hannah BALL had five children baptised at South Normanton.
Mary - 24 Sept 1817
Hannah - 6 Feb 1821
Mary 14 Oct 1822
Eliza 7th Nov 1823
LUCY 18th July 1825

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Marriages at St Mary Magdalene, Sutton in Ashfield, Nottinghamshire.

Fiche 57 - 3rd June 1816 - after banns - by Thomas Hurt, curate.
Francis BALL & Hannah ALSOP, both of this parish.
married  in this church by banns
Both made their mark X
In the presence of: John Brandreth & Caulton Leeson.
 ~ ~ ~

Fiche 65 - 28th Dec 1845 - after banns - by Rev. Wm Goodacre.
Joseph ENGLAND, 22 yrs, bachelor, occ Miner, residence: Hucknah?
Father = John England, FWK
Lucy/Amy BALL, 21 yrs, spinster, servant, residence - Ditto
Father = Francis Ball, Collier.
Joseph signs & Lucy made her mark X
Witnesses  = Thomas Ball & Eliza Ball X


my note:
I can see why the name looks like Amy, but the swirly writing and the way the capital A is formed could also be Lucy.
residence looked like Hucknah.... maybe, as in Hucknall Huthwaite?.... the church they would use then would likely be Sutton in Ashfield.


Sheila.