Author Topic: Delay between death and will  (Read 1968 times)

Offline pinefamily

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Delay between death and will
« on: Friday 18 January 19 03:38 GMT (UK) »
Hello Rootschatters,
I am after some thoughts and ideas rather than actual research help.
What possible reasons could there be for a delay of roughly 10 years before a will was proved?
I have an ancestor whose will was proved in 1807, cannot find a burial, but his wife is described as a widow from 1798 in land tax records.  He was last sighted in 1795, with no intervening years.
A possible burial place in London doesn't have extant parish records for the time and he is not buried in the town of the land tax records.
But I am mainly perplexed on the delay. The only possible thing that I can see is there were no witnesses to the will, which had been written back in 1771. The wife was the sole beneficiary and executor. Two witnesses came forward in 1807 to verify it was my ancestors signature.
Any contributions welcome.
I am Australian, from all the lands I come (my ancestors, at least!)

Pine/Pyne, Dowdeswell, Kempster, Sando/Sandoe/Sandow, Nancarrow, Hounslow, Youatt, Richardson, Jarmyn, Oxlade, Coad, Kelsey, Crampton, Lindner, Pittaway, and too many others to name.
Devon, Dorset, Gloucs, Cornwall, Warwickshire, Bucks, Oxfordshire, Wilts, Germany, Sweden, and of course London, to name a few.

Offline majm

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Re: Delay between death and will
« Reply #1 on: Friday 18 January 19 05:01 GMT (UK) »
I have one in 1800s ... will made 1830,  death 1842,  proven 1856 ..... youngest beneficary turned 25 in 1855 and they waited until she was of age **... NSW Supreme Court but deceased estate included real property in the West Counties and VDL and Scotland ....

ADD **  as per the express request in will ... all his daughters had to wait till 25 instead of 21

JM
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Offline pinefamily

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Re: Delay between death and will
« Reply #2 on: Friday 18 January 19 05:50 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Majm. If only there was a similar stipulation in this will, I could understand it. But unfortunately it's fairly stock standard, leaving everything to his wife.
From your example though, it shows there could have been any number of reasons for a delay in a will.
I am Australian, from all the lands I come (my ancestors, at least!)

Pine/Pyne, Dowdeswell, Kempster, Sando/Sandoe/Sandow, Nancarrow, Hounslow, Youatt, Richardson, Jarmyn, Oxlade, Coad, Kelsey, Crampton, Lindner, Pittaway, and too many others to name.
Devon, Dorset, Gloucs, Cornwall, Warwickshire, Bucks, Oxfordshire, Wilts, Germany, Sweden, and of course London, to name a few.

Offline Billyblue

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Re: Delay between death and will
« Reply #3 on: Friday 18 January 19 06:08 GMT (UK) »
Maybe they had trouble finding the will, or thought there may have been a later one.

Maybe, if there were no witnesses to the will, that could have invalidated it, even temporarily -
who knows what legalities were like then!

If there was real property, there may have been problems in proving ownership.

For instance, when I bought the house where I now live, it took ages for everything to go through (though not 10 years, thankfully!) because the old lady who owned the house had been told by 'somebody' that she could sign documents for her deceased husband because she had a Power of Attorney for him when he was alive, and the house had never been transferred solely to her.  So I had to wait for that to go through before she could sign documents as the sole owner!  And that was only 20 years ago   ::)  ::)  ::)

Dawn M
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Offline pinefamily

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Re: Delay between death and will
« Reply #4 on: Friday 18 January 19 07:08 GMT (UK) »
That's very interesting. Thanks Dawn.
Unless there's a record of proceedings it is always going to be a lot of what if's.
There was property as the wife is described as a widow in the land tax records.
I am Australian, from all the lands I come (my ancestors, at least!)

Pine/Pyne, Dowdeswell, Kempster, Sando/Sandoe/Sandow, Nancarrow, Hounslow, Youatt, Richardson, Jarmyn, Oxlade, Coad, Kelsey, Crampton, Lindner, Pittaway, and too many others to name.
Devon, Dorset, Gloucs, Cornwall, Warwickshire, Bucks, Oxfordshire, Wilts, Germany, Sweden, and of course London, to name a few.

Offline familydar

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Re: Delay between death and will
« Reply #5 on: Friday 18 January 19 09:33 GMT (UK) »
It may have been dependent on probate being settled for someone else who died first and who your man was a beneficiary of.  I've had that.

Jane :-)
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Offline Bookbox

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Re: Delay between death and will
« Reply #6 on: Friday 18 January 19 10:20 GMT (UK) »
Are there any Government stocks, bonds, securities etc. mentioned in the will? It may be that no-one bothered to apply for probate at the time of death, and it was only when the widow or someone else needed to get their hands on specific investments that a grant was applied for.

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Delay between death and will
« Reply #7 on: Friday 18 January 19 11:29 GMT (UK) »
Hello Rootschatters,
I am after some thoughts and ideas rather than actual research help.
What possible reasons could there be for a delay of roughly 10 years before a will was proved?
I have an ancestor whose will was proved in 1807, cannot find a burial, but his wife is described as a widow from 1798 in land tax records.  He was last sighted in 1795, with no intervening years.
A possible burial place in London doesn't have extant parish records for the time and he is not buried in the town of the land tax records.
But I am mainly perplexed on the delay. The only possible thing that I can see is there were no witnesses to the will, which had been written back in 1771. The wife was the sole beneficiary and executor. Two witnesses came forward in 1807 to verify it was my ancestors signature.
Any contributions welcome.

I have found Administrations and Wills delayed by many years.

Also found Second Grants for Probate for the same deceased person, where the Will was not fully settled on the first Grant of Probate. The Will said that our village Public House was to be sold when John Archer died and divided up between his Daughters. However, when John Archer died in 1812 his Widow Mrs Mary Archer continued to run the Holly Bush, Stockingford as Licensee and rename it The Plough. Around the time of The Plough Stockingford being advertised For Sale in 1821 (purchased by Stephen Arthrell), there was a "Second Grant" on John Archer's 1812 Will.

An old Admin or Will might not always be dealt with at the time; beneficiaries are minors (look for Trusts or Trustees names); possibly a family member still lived in the property; the person who should of dealt with the Will / Admin previously has now died; or some other reason, could cause the Admin/Will Probate application to be delayed.

A Will or a Trust in a Will may allow a business or a household (domestic) situation to continue as usual after a death. Also a Bankruptcy of a possible beneficiary, or their Assignment where a person might Assign property or a business for the Benefit of his / her Creditors (people owed money by the Beneficiary) might trigger the Will to be dealt with.

Perhaps the Will was found later when clearing a house or at the Solicitors.

In relation to a few Wills, there may be cases in the Court of Chancery to alter the terms of a Will or Trusts etc.

Missing Local Burials
There might be no local Parish Church burial, but if they had money the body could be transported elsewhere for burial, buried in a Private or Nonconformist Cemetery.

Some Quakers (and others) who owned their own property with garden or land could be buried at their own property, or another property they owned.

Land Tax
Our local Pub was subject to Tithe, also a Quit Rent to the Lord of the Manor (who had sold the Pub).

The Owner / Occupier might not always appear in surviving Land Tax records, because not every property was subject to Land Tax in England and some had paid the fee to Queen Anne's Bounty Office to redeem the property and be exonerated from Land Tax (See Redemption of / Redeemed Land Tax).

So if there are several of the same name in the locality, have you found your actual relative in the Land Tax, or someone else?

It depends on the detail in the Land Tax as to whether you can identify specific properties, some Land Tax Surveys were conducted more or less in Street order, then suddenly change to Alphabetical order by Proprietor or Occupier.

Mark

Offline medpat

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Re: Delay between death and will
« Reply #8 on: Friday 18 January 19 12:02 GMT (UK) »
My 4th gt grandfather died in 1851 and the will was proved in 1858 but I have theories about why.

Daniel left everything to his children - his home and all furniture etc. were to be sold and the money equally shared out, the workshop and the 2nd house he owned, where his eldest son lived, these to go to the eldest son who was also his partner in their business - all this to happen after his wife Elizabeth's death as she was to have use of everything until she died. I believe that they just left it status quo while Elizabeth lived at family home with her youngest children but she's living with my 3rd gt grandmother in the 1861, I think she decided either to move home or there was money problems somewhere in the family so they proved the will and sold up.  Elizabeth stayed with my 3rd gt grandmother until she died at her house in the 1870s.
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