Joseph Elliott KNOX

[shanreagh]

I would also look for the names Matheson and Elliott unless you have found that these are related to Catherine Knox Knox.

Seeing as you know about Catherine's family this is a tip:

Write down the names of the children of Joseph and Catherine and then along side each write where it came from...ie Catherine may be for the mother, or other names may come from the mother's family.  This will then give you some that have come from somewhere else.

Also look up Irish naming patterns, they are slightly different from Scottish naming patterns though be aware of both.  With a strong Scots Presbyterian name like Knox they may have harked more to the Scots.  Then be aware of what Aghadowey says and that some names may have come from a person in the district that they parents thought highly of, a minister etc.

I would take with a grain of salt that the parents did not know each other or the families did not know each other before Canada. There were concerns about family intermarriage, from biblical writings in those days.   Emigration patterns often have others following from Irish distircts once the first have made the move.

Have you looked for possibilities for Joseph's family in the same Irish county as Catherine's?

I would try to find Joseph's brothers in Canada as a priority.

[dbrobertson]

I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised, but I doubt that Joseph travelled with 'older brothers'. They are never named, never seem to have identities, never left a mark on the historical record. That's why I called it 'family lore' - only slightly more believable than a companion piece of 'lore' that states Joe & Cathy met on the voyage over and had a mid-Atlantic shipboard romance.

Just my guess, but I think Joseph travelled alone. He was on the cusp of his 18th birthday and husky - no need for chaperones. My grandfather lived with Joe & Cathy in the 1890s and described Joe as 'skookum' and still capable of bucking & splitting a cord or two of firewood in his 80s (and this after a series of strokes had caused paralysis on his left side).

Catherine's branch of the Knox clan didn't recycle names very much. In-law lines like Carr, McDowell and Ferguson aren't reused and they didn't seem to assign middle names to their kids. The names they handed out were pretty generic - William, John, Ann, Catherine, Robert, Henry, Margaret, Rachel, Jane. Catherine's father James didn't even reassign his name (although last child Rachel carried her mother's name).

I also have some faded photocopies of photocopies of letters sent and received by Catherine's mother, Rachel {McDowell} Knox during the 1830s. No mention of 'other' Knoxes nearby during frontier times.

[shanreagh]

I am still looking!  I am starting in  Co Fermanagh.

I have found a family in 1821 Census
Thomas Knox 35
Mary Knox 35
'Joh'* Knox 9
Susan 1
Margret 5
* Has been transcribed as 'Jesse' but don't think that is correct.

They are residing with a John Weer, a widower who is 70 and he says the couple are his son in law and daughter in law which makes me think the either john or Mary Knox may have been a son/daughter of his late wife. Seems odd to have both described as an in law? Can't think of another way to describe a relationship. 

John Weer is farmer living in Tedd, Derryvolland Co Fermangh.

Before I go any further I just wanted to check that this Joh/Jesse has not been 'claimed' by Catherine Knox Knox in the genealogical work you have already done on her family.

I love 'skookum' and see it is found in Pacific northwest and is from Chinook language.


 

[dbrobertson]

Catherine Knox (20 Jun 1822 - 04 Jan 1903) her family:

Parents: James Knox (1775 - 28 Oct 1846)        born County Cavan
             Rachel McDowell (1782 - 26 Mar 1863) born County Cavan
             -  married  11 Feb 1806 Church of Ireland, Galloon Parish, County Cavan

James' parents are unknown. Rachel's parents are:
              Robert McDowell (1742 - 1819) born Tyrone County, died Ballinamallard County, was known as the 'Long McDowell' and served as a Methodist "class leader" under John Wesley for 37 years.
              Ann Carr (circa 1745 - ----) born County Fermanagh, married County Cavan

Rachel's siblings (all McDowells) are: Hannah (1783 - 1783), Samuel (26 Dec 1785 - 05 Aug 1850), Catherine (1790 - ----) and David (09 Aug 1795 - 27 Nov 1880) All born Ireland, died Canada (except Hannah).

Robert McDowell's parents are William John McDowell and Ann Jane Ferguson, born Ireland early in the 18th century (circa 1705 - 1710).

James Knox was also a Methodist class leader, serving in Pontiac County during the last years of his life.

I note that Joseph was not a popular Knox name - only the Eastern Canadian branch (Catherine's eldest brother William) reused the name.

Incidentally, the McDowell name has been pronounced 'Mik-dole' since their arrival nearly two centuries ago.

Chinook has largely died out, but one could still hear bursts of it on the streets of Vancouver or Seattle
mid-twentieth century. A couple of my uncles could speak it pretty well.

I hope details about Catherine's Knox bunch help in locating her husband Joseph (although I've never found linkages per se).

Brian

[dbrobertson]

Jim (BallyaltikilliganG) complained of Elliott/Knox spreadsheets provoking cross-eyedness. I think I've now caught it. The spreadsheets came to 19 pages when I printed them off. Tantalizing stuff - I see Margaret Elliott & William Knox both of the parish Derryvullan on the '1796 Flax Growers of Ireland'. Of the hundreds of Knoxes on these pages, only 4 Joseph Knoxes appear: the Joseph at Tereagh in 1830 is interesting.

Just too little known about Joseph E for any of this to jump out at me (although I notice some of Catherine's kin).

Shanreagh - there was an 1821 Irish census? I was unaware... Thomas & Mary Knox of Tedd, Derryvolland (per John Weer) are unknown to me, so could be Joe's parents. I'm curious - why do you think 9 year-old 'Joh' is not a Jesse?

Time to uncross my eyes.

Brian

[shanreagh]

Yes there was aan 1821 census.

All the census mnaterial is on this site

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

Ther eis a down arrow and you can select the census you wnat. Many of the earlier ones are fragments only so having any entry in 1821 is rather special.  All of the Knox records are for Derryvullan/Derryvolland.

The census material also gives access to the originals.  When I look I see Joh/Jeh plus a fullstop ie Joh. that the recorder seems to use to show he has used an abbreviation.   I do not see the word Jesse.

[dbrobertson]

Joh. is what I see. I don't know what abbreviations were standard (or usual) in Ulster two centuries ago, but Joh. most often seems to be 'John' abbreviated, while James is often 'Ja.' or 'Jas.' and Joseph is 'Jo' or 'Jos.' I think I even saw Jeffrey abbreviated to 'Jff.' one time.

So not Jesse, but not necessarily Joseph either.

Brian

[lmayer5]

Hi Brian. I am also a descendant of Joseph Elliott Knox and Catherine Knox. Interested to know if you've had any success in tracking down his family?

[dbrobertson]

Hi lmayer5...

No, no joy to be had on that front, but not for lack of trying on the part of the Rootschat folk, as can be seen above.

I'll send a pm to discuss further.

Brian