Old Cemetery Rothesay

[ABradley]

Parents of Alexandrina
               RORY (Roderick) WALKER/ RACHAEL MCLEOD

No luck with PeterMcDonald

[Rosinish]

Does Peter not name his parents on their marriage?

I added to my previous post.

Annie

[ABradley]

I got his details from the marriage cert of his daughter Annie who married in 1899 i Rothesay.
Just that of him and his wife Alexandrina.

[Rosinish]

Are you following their lines as I can have a look in my wee archive of info. to see if I can find anything of interest?

Annie

[ABradley]

I am fairly satisfied with what I have on these families.
I am stuck with the Lyon ancestry before James's marriage to Annie McDonald in Rothesay at the moment.
No trace of his father's marriage to Agnes Bell.

[Rosinish]

Do you have James' BC, when was he born & was he born in Scotland?

Have you found him on census records with his parents & were they both born Scotland?

Annie

[Rosinish]

Treat with CAUTION as this family are a challenge indeed!

I've set this out the best I can so as not to confuse matters as it's been a wee bit tricky to say the least.

The info. you gave on James’ 1899 marriage to Annie states his parents as deceased (can you please check whether his mother was deceased) – reason given later but what was his age, occ, address, father’s occ. & who were witnesses? Did he sign or was it his mark X?

Do you know of any siblings he had if any as checking them out would help i.e. BMDs as to mother’s m/s?

I’m of the opinion James may have made an error with his mother’s m/s which would throw everything depending on how questions were asked?

Here’s what I’ve found so far, which may not be the correct family & James’ birth place (if it’s him) differs between Rothesay, Dumbarton & Glasgow but there are various similarities, coincidences etc. I thought worth considering?

James & Annie Lyon

1901 - 41 Watergate, Rothesay (Transcription)

John Mcfadden 30 Head Occ Lorogman (sic) b Ireland
Rachael “ 25 Wife b Dalybury, Invernessshire (should read Daliburgh)
William “ 1 Son b Rothesay
James Lyon  25 Visitor Mason's Lab b (c1876) b Rothesay
Annie “ 24 b Dalbury, Invernessshire (should read Daliburgh)
James “ 1 b Rothesay
Robert Dum 45 Lodger Shoemaker b Invernessshire (Dunn on SP index)

Parish: Rothesay ED 13 Page 31 Line 7 Roll CSSCT1901_187

SP entry - LYON JAMES 25 - 558/ 13/ 31 Rothesay Bute


1891 – (Possible family) 18 Watergate Street, Rothesay

James Lyon 32 Stone Hewer b (c1859) Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Agnes “ 41 Wife b (c1850) Glasgow, Lanarkshire
James “ 16 Son Mason b (c1875) Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Susan “ 14 Dau b Helensburgh, Dumbartonshire
Agnes “ 6 Dau b Rothesay
George “ 4 Son b Rothesay
Catherine Lyon 3 Dau b Rothesay

Parish: Rothesay; ED: 15; Page: 7; Line: 10; Roll: CSSCT1891_175

1881 (Possible for James Snr)

James Lyons 25 Mason (Lodger) b (c1856) Glasgow
Address 11 Graeme St, Blackfriars, Glasgow
Parish: Glasgow Blackfriars; ED: 46; Page: 1; Line: 10; Roll: cssct1881_227

1881 – (Possible for James Jnr.) 22 James St, Row, Helensburgh, Dumbarton

Alexr Hamilton  68 Mason b Ireand
Mary I Hamilton  61 Wife b Ireland
Lilias Hamilton 11 G/dau b Helensbro
James Leon 6 Grandson b (1875) Helensbro, Dumbarton (Possibly Lyon)
Mary McDonald 27 Hawker (Lodger) b Luss, Dumbarton
William Bonnar 42 Coal Miner (Lodger) b Glasgow
 
Parish: Row; ED: 9; Page: 43; Line: 15; Roll: cssct1881_14

Possible death James Snr;

LYONS JAMES 38 1896   
597/ 135 Kilmarnock, Ayr (this would almost fit with his age on census’)

Was the mother really deceased in 1899 as this is worth looking at even if they never actually married as this Agnes was previously married?

Possible death for mother Agnes;

LYONS AGNES 50 1901 558/ 38 Rothesay   
MCKECHNIE    AGNES 50 1901 558/ 38 Rothesay   
KEDZIEN AGNES 50 1901 558/ 38   Rothesay   

This is a bit of a shortcut & speculation as this Agnes married in Glasgow but died in Rothesay as Lyon(s) which seems a big coincidence (to me). It’s something I would investigate if only to find out who husband Lyons was, his occ. & who registered her death although I may be way off track?

Agnes Mckechnie Marriage Date 31 Dec 1866 Bridgeton, Glasgow, Lanark
Spouse William Caydzien
FHL Film Number 6035516

Agnes 1881 (Not with hubby)

Address 29 St Andrew Sq, Blackfriars, Glasgow (Same area James Snr. was in 1881)
George McKechnie 24
Agnas Caydzien 31 Sister b (c1850) Glasgow
James Caydzien 12 Nephew b Glasgow
William Caydzien 6 Nephew b Glasgow

Parish: Glasgow Blackfriars; ED: 56; Page: 25; Line: 6; Roll: cssct1881_227

McKechnie was this Agnes’ m/s & I’m wondering if her mother or James Snr’s mother’s m/s may have been Bell i.e. a genuine error on James part?
If asked for James (father’s details) then asked for mother’s details, he may have given his father’s mother’s details rather than his own mother’s details?
Anything is possible I think?

Sometimes we need an open mind & explore possibilities even if to eliminate them.
I’ve found many errors in my research as I’m sure others have too but it’s a great feeling when you have enough evidence to “crack it’.

Annie

[Rosinish]

I know you said you were happy with the MacDonald info. to date but I checked through my own S/Uist records of marriages in 1872 & found the marriage of Peter & Alexandrina/Lexy on the same page as one of my own!

Peter was illegitimate so I checked through other info. & found a substantial amount & a possible father but no proof.

Annie

[Rosinish]

I'm so glad I had the patience, frame of mind & time yesterday to follow that lot through...

Persistence does pay dividends!

I'm not sure if James married twice or whether 2 different people or if either are your James' father but...

LYONS JAMES & HAMILTON AGNES 1874
503/ 35 Row or Rhu

Hamilton was the surname of g/parents where a James Leon 6 Grandson was in 1881 which I posted earlier.


LYONS JAMES & MCKECHNIE AGNES 1881
644/12 378 Gorbals

LYONS JAMES & CAYDZIEN AGNES 1881
644/12 378 Gorbals

I felt there were too many coincidences to ignore.

However, your James was b c1875 from census' i.e. may be the son of the 1st marriage I posted?

Those marriages will give all mothers maiden names as it's been a conundrum with the name Bell?

Hope this helps in some way?

Annie