JOHN DESMOND - SOUTHWARK

[DaisyGrace]

Hi All,

I am researching the DESMOND family from the above area and if possible, I need a couple of pointers, please.

From the GRO I have the following listing for Timothy DESMOND b.1859 St Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey Surrey Vol.1d Page 85 - mother's maiden name MURPHY.

I have a marriage record for Timothy to Sarah Base in 1878 and his father's name shows 'John Desmond (Labourer).'

I can find a civil marriage reg. listing on Ancestry for John DESMOND m. 1845 St Geo. Southwark but in the brides name that appear there are two Murphy's - Mary and Julia.   

I find a Timothy on UK Census (b.1859 Bermondsey) from 1861 to 1881 with parents John b.1811 Ireland and Julia Desmond b.1821 Ireland, so I assume I have the correct family.  However, I cannot find any parish records for John's marriage or for Timothy's baptism to substantiate the family connection.

I have tried searching for Timothy's siblings (as shown on the census) in the hopes of finding something that might help but I come up blank. I cannot even link them to a mother with maiden name Murphy, by searching the GRO.

I've reached the point where I'm going round in circles trying to work out if the John on Timothy's marriage record and the John married to Julia are one and the same person. 

Please if anyone can give me their thoughts on this, from a different angle, I would be most appreciative.

Thank you

 

[Annette7]

I would say that you are not finding baptisms - or the actual marriage details of John and Julia - because they were Roman Catholic and the necessary records are not available online.

My gut instinct is that you have the right John married to a Julia Murphy but at this point the only way is to purchase the marriage certificate to find out if this was so.  I would suggest that they did not register the births of their 1st 3 children which is why there are no appropriate birth entries.

Annette

[jonw65]

Hi
Welcome to Rootschat.

Superintendent Registrar, St George the Martyr Southwark
Notices of Marriage
John Desmond
+
Julia Murphy

Both minors, living White Street
Marriage to be at Belgian Chapel, London Road
witness my hand this 7th day of January 1845
The Mark of Julia Murphy
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS2G-1W91-G?i=41&cat=289304

Need to be logged in as a free member to see it.
John

[DaisyGrace]

I would say that you are not finding baptisms - or the actual marriage details of John and Julia - because they were Roman Catholic and the necessary records are not available online.

My gut instinct is that you have the right John married to a Julia Murphy but at this point the only way is to purchase the marriage certificate to find out if this was so.  I would suggest that they did not register the births of their 1st 3 children which is why there are no appropriate birth entries.

Annette

Thanks Annette, I 'stupidly' didn't think about the Catholic side of things, because the rest of the family were all C of E.   I also think I'm on the right track but one can never be sure - especially with so many Irish named John 

[DaisyGrace]

Hi
Welcome to Rootschat.

Superintendent Registrar, St George the Martyr Southwark
Notices of Marriage
John Desmond
+
Julia Murphy

Both minors, living White Street
Marriage to be at Belgian Chapel, London Road
witness my hand this 7th day of January 1845
The Mark of Julia Murphy
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS2G-1W91-G?i=41&cat=289304

Need to be logged in as a free member to see it.
John

Thank you for the welcome and for the banns, so kind of you!    The only part that confuses me is that they are both listed as minors and on all the census docs it shows John as approx. ten years Julia's senior, nonetheless I'm thrilled with this!

[Kay99]

I found this RC bapt on F M P which ties in with the birth in Bermondsey  June Qtr 1859 in terms of birth date but the mother isn't Julia 

England Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms
Timotheus  Desmond
Birth date   27 May 1859
Baptism date   29 May 1859
Mother Joanna Scully??
Father   Joannis Desmond
Church   St Mary & St Michael
Deanery   Tower Hamlets
Diocese   Westminster

Kay

[DaisyGrace]

I found this RC bapt on F M P which ties in with the birth in Bermondsey  June Qtr 1859 in terms of birth date but the mother isn't Julia 

England Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms
Timotheus  Desmond
Birth date   27 May 1859
Baptism date   29 May 1859
Mother Joanna Scully??
Father   Joannis Desmond
Church   St Mary & St Michael
Deanery   Tower Hamlets
Diocese   Westminster

Kay

Thanks so much, Kay but I'm not sure this is him.  His birth registration shows his mother's maiden name as Murphy.