Author Topic: James or Thomas Keenan 1800  (Read 653 times)

Offline Puffin81

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Re: James or Thomas Keenan 1800
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 26 January 19 21:35 GMT (UK) »
Puffin, I meant to say that you have posted other threads on RootsChat about the family. Click on your user profile to see them.

Yes I know, Iíve tried to keep queryís separate especially when Iíve got new info so as not to get confused or go back on things Iíve been able to discount.  I didnít realise that was an issue

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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: James or Thomas Keenan 1800
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 26 January 19 21:53 GMT (UK) »

I am looking at Jane's entry and I cannot make Keenan out of the writing that it there. She may be using her maiden name again. Looks like XXissan.
The children entered under her entry are James aged 16 and Bartholomeu aged 13. There is a ditto showing that they also share the name of the Jane immediately above. 

The other idea could be that Daniel and John McCluskey/McClousky are the children of the father shown as William (I am not seeing Daniel as the father?) McCluskey and a prior wife to Mary.

I agree with these points.
Jane's surname looked something like O'Brien to me but can't be sure because of lines through writing. Some married or widowed Irish women were known by their maiden names.
Relationship stated was supposed to be to head of household. Therefore Daniel and John were recorded as sons of Wiliam McCluskey. William or whoever gave information may not have known his correct age. If he was the father of the 2 boys he may have been older than stated. He may have married very young.
I read "Bartholomey" which is how he signed his marriage certificate.

Railways were being constructed in Cumberland at the time, initially to carry iron ore, slate and copper from mines.
Bartholomew's father might have gone to work in Scotland or anywhere in Britain.

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Offline Puffin81

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Re: James or Thomas Keenan 1800
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 26 January 19 22:08 GMT (UK) »

I am looking at Jane's entry and I cannot make Keenan out of the writing that it there. She may be using her maiden name again. Looks like XXissan.
The children entered under her entry are James aged 16 and Bartholomeu aged 13. There is a ditto showing that they also share the name of the Jane immediately above. 

The other idea could be that Daniel and John McCluskey/McClousky are the children of the father shown as William (I am not seeing Daniel as the father?) McCluskey and a prior wife to Mary.

I agree with these points.
Jane's surname looked something like O'Brien to me but can't be sure because of lines through writing. Some married or widowed Irish women were known by their maiden names.
Relationship stated was supposed to be to head of household. Therefore Daniel and John were recorded as sons of Wiliam McCluskey. William or whoever gave information may not have known his correct age. If he was the father of the 2 boys he may have been older than stated. He may have married very young.
I read "Bartholomey" which is how he signed his marriage certificate.

Railways were being constructed in Cumberland at the time, initially to carry iron ore, slate and copper from mines.
Bartholomew's father might have gone to work in Scotland or anywhere in Britain.

Bartholomews dad was a soldier according to the records, so I hoped to find him in Carlisle barrocks.

In early doccuments he ideitifies as bartholomey, I did a bit of research on Irish names sometimes the son took the name of the father but it was altered a little, but I donít think this is the case unless bartholomew was a baby out of wedlock some how.  I think he becomes bartholomew in a lot of doccuments due to the Englishís spelling possibly accent issue.  I always search bartholomew, bartholomy and bartholomus.

I also read that sometimes the man took the womanís name in Ireland so i really could be looking for a needle in a haystack.

For Daniel and John to be williams even to another wife William would have been about 12 when they were born.  Daniel should have been fairly easy to find as the name wasnít common (Iíve searched Daniel mcclusky & Daniel Keenan) I donít think he can have got the ages wrong as itís a big jump from toddler to 12 year old child.

The only clue I have is his sister states she was born in maye Ireland in the 1891 census, I think that means mayo

Iíve gathered a good few pieces of this jigsaw, I just canít put them together.  I go off and work on other areas of my tree but I always come back to this couple

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: James or Thomas Keenan 1800
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 26 January 19 22:21 GMT (UK) »

For Daniel and John to be williams even to another wife William would have been about 12 when they were born.  Daniel should have been fairly easy to find as the name wasnít common (Iíve searched Daniel mcclusky & Daniel Keenan) I donít think he can have got the ages wrong as itís a big jump from toddler to 12 year old child.
That's why I said that William may not have known his real age. Although his age was consistent on later censuses, if those posted by shanreagh were the family. A lot of Irish people didn't know how old they were. William may have been a few years older.

Offline Puffin81

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Re: James or Thomas Keenan 1800
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 26 January 19 23:27 GMT (UK) »

For Daniel and John to be williams even to another wife William would have been about 12 when they were born.  Daniel should have been fairly easy to find as the name wasnít common (Iíve searched Daniel mcclusky & Daniel Keenan) I donít think he can have got the ages wrong as itís a big jump from toddler to 12 year old child.
That's why I said that William may not have known his real age. Although his age was consistent on later censuses, if those posted by shanreagh were the family. A lot of Irish people didn't know how old they were. William may have been a few years older.

Maybe, if I could find a mention of Daniel in a census or a birth record that could prove it

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: James or Thomas Keenan 1800
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 26 January 19 23:45 GMT (UK) »

Maybe, if I could find a mention of Daniel in a census or a birth record that could prove it
Have you looked for him as Clusky or Cluskey?

Online shanreagh

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Re: James or Thomas Keenan 1800
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 27 January 19 05:43 GMT (UK) »
Following on from Maiden Stone's post I have looked again at the name for Jane and it does look like O'Brien and it does look  as though she is 'Ma'. This name O'Brien or my weird one with Lissan may be maiden names and even though it is more common in Scotland for women to maintain their MS in documents there are numbers in Ireland also.  Or it could be another married name for Jane.  So perhaps she married the Keenan who was a soldier then after his death she had children with an O'Brien, James aged 16 and Bartholomeu aged 13 and took the name of O'Brien. Or that these children were to another father but took the name of O'Brien for propriety's sake.

The other idea I had was to see if anyone you know has Photoshop so they could work on removing the line especially though Jane's name and see what the original writing was. 

The other point is that the family were Irish emigrants being asked for information by, presumably, Scots census takers.  The potential for mishearing is high.     

Offline Puffin81

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Re: James or Thomas Keenan 1800
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 27 January 19 10:24 GMT (UK) »
Following on from Maiden Stone's post I have looked again at the name for Jane and it does look like O'Brien and it does look  as though she is 'Ma'. This name O'Brien or my weird one with Lissan may be maiden names and even though it is more common in Scotland for women to maintain their MS in documents there are numbers in Ireland also.  Or it could be another married name for Jane.  So perhaps she married the Keenan who was a soldier then after his death she had children with an O'Brien, James aged 16 and Bartholomeu aged 13 and took the name of O'Brien. Or that these children were to another father but took the name of O'Brien for propriety's sake.

The other idea I had was to see if anyone you know has Photoshop so they could work on removing the line especially though Jane's name and see what the original writing was. 

The other point is that the family were Irish emigrants being asked for information by, presumably, Scots census takers.  The potential for mishearing is high.   

But then in the following censuses Jane declares Keenan, unless Jane was the 2nd wife and took the Keenan name for some reason.  And was only the step mother.

The Carlisle registry office looked at the original document for me they said it looked more like reacon, ansestry has it as kinn and someone else once told me okeanan

Offline emmsthheight

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Re: James or Thomas Keenan 1800
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 27 January 19 16:57 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Have you searched the forum or looked on the Cumberland board for this family.

There are a large group researching them and many posts from them. Iíve done quite a bit of research too. I donít have all my info at present to look to answer your question but I bet you will find loads of info on those boards and some will be pleased to hear from you

I will look for some links

More in a minute

Best wishes

Emms :)
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