Who were Chaine and Luba RATTNER 1893 from Breman

[brigidmac]

I found the handwritten record of
David RATTNER  in 1893 aged 43

Travelling midship from Bremen to NY with 4 pieces of baggage

His wife is named as Chaina ? Its not very legible aged 40
 
He is listed with 2 sons Moses
& Elie aged 11 and 9 who became dentists in New York
 and 2 daughters Zivia aged 8 and Sara aged 7   who became Celia Silk and Sadie Ratner a hoirticulturalist.

But there is also Lube aged 20
What is her relationship to the family ? If  she is  Lena ?why such a big age gap ?

 David and his children Lena (FELLMAN )Sadie & Morris  RATNER are in burial plot together

Where is his wife.s grave ?
David is listed as a widower in 1915

and why do Morris and Ellis name their mother as Tillie Epstein on naturalisatuion documents.

Is there any evidence of 2 marriages in Russia
Could Chaine be Tillie nee Epstein.

Any idea where they came from more precisely ?
Thanks

Ps a topic about the  RATNER/SILK family is on the american forum
Title
"Caroline Silk nee Ratner born 1880'.s "


 

[brigidmac]

I found some
  jewish records but keep getting blocked or timed out on ancestry search .

Any chance that

Tillie Epstien
Could be from lithuanian Russia

* Gilka Kyen EPSTYNE b 1854

Or

Gita Aronvich EPSHTYEN b1852
Father name EliasH ..which matches her 2nd son Ellis
Mothers name Chane ARONOVICH b1825

What do you think ?

[*Sandra*]

Can't remember what we might have posted previously - so forgive me if I repeat a search. 
If this is your David Ratner (slightly different spelling) then he was widowed by 1907

Noticed a border crossing Canada to the USA  for David Radtner - born 1850 Russia and aged 57 years - arriving Yarmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada in 1907. Rabbi. Last permanent address Quebec Canada - name and address on relative in country from whence came was Samuel Radtner. Mohlere  Russia. Going to New York.
Widowed. Had been on the USA 1893 - 1904 - departed USA October 1904 - going to join 2 sons and 3 daughters - 2 Clinton Street New York. Had previously landed 1893 on the Bremen.

Sandra

[*Sandra*]

This was the 1910 census that shows David was widowed.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M54R-SWQ

Lube is probably Lena on that passenger list in 1893.

Sandra

[*Sandra*]

Have you checked with Mount Carmel Cemetery to see if they can tell you exactly who is buried in the plot. Might be worth asking if there is a burial for a Tillie/Chana/Chaisa.

If Tillie/Chaine/Chana was still alive in 1904 could she have left the USA with David and perhaps passed away in Canada ?

Chaine and Tillie could well be the same person.

Sandra

[Alex017]

why such a big age gap ?

Other children born after Lube (before Moses) could have died being little.

[Alex017]

Samuel Radtner. Mohlere  Russia

Mohlere = Mohilev, now Belarus  (?)

[brigidmac]

Thank you ...yes they are possibilities.I dont know how common rhe names Ratner :& Ephstein are

I have never contacted a cemetary .i am in UK .

Sorry fo late answer wAs ill thiscweek

[brigidmac]

Sandra i didnt have anything about Davids earlier life because i was only interested in his daughter Lena who.married my great great uncle Bernat FELLMAN but its interesting that they may have named their daughter Tillie after her deceased grandmother

Also interesting that David RAtNER was noted as being a rabbi
Bernart FELLMAN s father  Samuel FELLMAN may also have been a rabbi ..only evidence so far is a handwritten note on his photo ...Ive no idea how to find out but hope to go to rhe Jewish museum in Manchester where they may be able to help me .