Author Topic: Who was Winifred Vasey?  (Read 810 times)

Offline chris_49

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Who was Winifred Vasey?
« on: Saturday 26 January 19 21:12 GMT (UK) »
Here's a puzzler for you. The 1939 register has provided new clues about some of my lines, notably the Ingrams and Vernons of Derby. A lot of relatives turned up who were new to me. Many I found married with families.

An exception is William Vernon 1907 MMN Ingram. He's found in Derby with his widowed mother Florence 1871-1954 and is listed as married, but without a wife. This isn't a mistake - his older brother Harry 1902 is deemed single, but his nephew Charles Alfred Vernon 1917 is there too and also listed as married without a wife, but she - Doris A nee Armes 1919 - is nearby with her parents, perhaps because she had recently lost a baby, they seem to have other children later.

But who was Wiliam's wife? There are a lot of plain William Vernons, but the best fit seems to be to Winifred Vasey, married in 1928 in Derby. They had several Vernon-Vasey children there. She could be the one born Lincoln 1908, or Leeds 1910, or another.

But when I tried to find Winifred Vernon in 1939 I drew a blank. The best I could find was in Kirkby-in-Ashfield, Notts where a Winifred Whitehurst 1909 married and Joseph 1936 both future name Vernon are staying with a Laura Shaw widow, unknown. Indeed these two both die in Derby in 1995 and 1970 respectively, as Vernon, and their DoBs match the 1939 exactly,. No Joseph Whitehurst registration can be found around 1936, but there are two Joseph Vernons - one in Stockton and the other in Derby, MMN Vasey, right quarter birth. (I can't find his siblings in 1939 but they may be redacted.)

The obvious explanation would be that Winifred Whitehurst married a Vernon and got her son to change his name to that of her new husband. But I can find no such marriage. Is it possible that Laura Shaw, head of household, got their names wrong and they were later corrected? Perhaps because they were her Whitehurst relatives?

One Winifred Whitehurst who fits was born the right quarter in 1909 and is with her parents Thomas Augustine and Gertrude Mary nee Furniss in Derby in 1911, though she has a middle name Mary. I thought Gertrude might have later had a relationship with a Vasey, but no - I found her in 1939 in Derby widowed as Whitehurst with her other daughters Irene(ia) and Constance.

it's true that a William Vernon marries a Whitehurst in adjoining Uttoxeter district in 1926, but he's rather young to be my William, she's an Elsie, that marriage seems childless (she didn't die) and it's at Leigh, well west of Uttoxeter town.

Maybe I'm reading too much into all this. I know I should send for that marriage certificate, but I thought I'd collect your thoughts before I waste my money (again!)

Thanks in advance for reading all this. Chris.

Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs
Hancox - Warks
Green - Warks
Draper - Warks
Lynes - Warks
Hudson - Warks
Morris - Denbs Mont Salop
Davies - Cheshire, North Wales
Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire
Owens - Cheshire/North Wales
Hicks - Cornwall
Lloyd and Jones (Mont)
Rhys/Rees (Mont)

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Offline CaroleW

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Re: Who was Winifred Vasey?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 26 January 19 22:30 GMT (UK) »
Have you checked the 1939 for any female Vernons in Derbyshire shown as married but without husbands?

It won’t give her maiden name (unless she’s with family) but it would give you a christian name to narrow down a possible marriage

Another possiblity is William’s death - did he leave a will.  Died 1970 Derby - birthyear a year out

EDIT
No probate entry

Death for Winifred Vernon 1995 Derby b 15.5.1909  birth June qtr 1909 Islington Winifred Veazey???
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline CaroleW

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Re: Who was Winifred Vasey?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 26 January 19 22:52 GMT (UK) »
No marriage/death for Winifred Veazey.  The Winifred E Veazey who married 1930 was b 1902
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline CaroleW

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Re: Who was Winifred Vasey?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 26 January 19 22:58 GMT (UK) »
1911 has a 2yr old Winnie Veasey in Rutland b Derbyshire
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline CaroleW

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Re: Who was Winifred Vasey?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 26 January 19 23:12 GMT (UK) »
The Derbyshire Winnie was b Doris Winifred Veasey Dec qtr 1908
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Offline chempat

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Re: Who was Winifred Vasey?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 26 January 19 23:55 GMT (UK) »
Death certificate for name of informant - who may be related.

Wife not showing in 1939 because died more recently?

Offline chris_49

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Re: Who was Winifred Vasey?
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 27 January 19 09:34 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for your replies Carole and Chempat.

I hadn't really considered Veasey/Veasey but on reflection that could be pronounced Vazey too. That just widens the list of possibilities! The children are all registered with the MMN Vasey precisely. Yes, I've looked for other Vernons.

Chempat, I don't think William's wife would be redacted 1939 as that would have to be a very recent marriage - there isn't one that fits - but also a young bride over a decade younger than her husband if born 1919 or later.

I didn't think Joseph would leave a will. He died very young, perhaps suddenly, and he never married AFAICS. I'm tired of receiving death certificates that tell you very little!

I forgot to mention that if the Kirkby-in-Ashfield one is my Winifred Vasey, she had a son in December quarter 1939 in Derby (probably the one that died there 1940) so her stay there wasn't very long. I've read though, somewhere, that some evacuations were purely temporary in the panic of that September, many soon drifted back.

I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and send for that marriage certificate in Derby in 1928. I'd hope to learn at least something from that, unless her father's name is the dreaded blank, and the witnesses might tell me something - if it is my William (and his father should be given as he was alive then). If it's not him I'll just have to die wondering.

Thanks again, Chris.
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs
Hancox - Warks
Green - Warks
Draper - Warks
Lynes - Warks
Hudson - Warks
Morris - Denbs Mont Salop
Davies - Cheshire, North Wales
Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire
Owens - Cheshire/North Wales
Hicks - Cornwall
Lloyd and Jones (Mont)
Rhys/Rees (Mont)

Offline chempat

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Re: Who was Winifred Vasey?
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 27 January 19 12:25 GMT (UK) »

Chempat, I don't think William's wife would be redacted 1939 as that would have to be a very recent marriage - there isn't one that fits - but also a young bride over a decade younger than her husband if born 1919 or later.


born a few years (6? 7?) after husband and still alive...... People do live to 105.

OK, probably not, but always worth remembering.

Offline avm228

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Re: Who was Winifred Vasey?
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 27 January 19 13:03 GMT (UK) »
Looks like Winifred Veazey b Islington Jun qtr 1909 died Islington Mar qtr 1910, aged 0.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)