Looking for Henry Charles Marshall of Donnington/Newbury

[janjim]

Ladyhawk,

Thank you for confirming much of my information.   No, I don't have marriage certificate, but I believe that through process of elimination, and research on free bdm UK, I have determined that Henry Charles Marshall married Sarah Copas in 1874.   The age factor has come into this, Sarah Copas (Marshall) died in 1875 aged 17 years, and at that time Henry would have been approximately 19 years of age.   Child Sarah Amelia aged 5 years in 1881 census, makes her birth date approximately 1875, and that is where I see that maybe Sarah Marshall died in childbirth.

Census information has also provided me with much information.  I am a little loathe to outlay money for certificates at this stage, as there are family members here in Australia, who have done their trees, am still awaiting their replies (I have DNA match with them) as to whether they have copy of marriage certificate in Australia, as well as maybe death certificate for Henry Charles Marshall.     

Jan

[janjim]

Hi again,
I have found Sarah Marshall b. 1875 marrying Thomas Thatcher in 1898 at Hungerford are shown in 1911 census with Reginald Marshall and Dorothy Louisa Thatcher.

However, I have found the four of them living in Victoria Australia, Sarah died in 1938 Malvern Victoria, Thomas died 1959 Victoria and family Reginald Marshall d.1971 Melbourne Victoria and Dorothy Louisa Dunstan (nee Thatcher) d. 1970 at Prahan.

Wondering if you could assist me with immigration records, cannot find same on Ancestry.

jan

[candrjm]

Quote

Do you have Henry's m/c?

If you don't have m/c how certain are you that Henry married Sarah Copas?

Sep 1874  Newbury    2c   413   
COPAS Sarah           
Dell Jane             
LEADER  James             
Marshall Henry Charles   

The reason I ask this question is the following

James & Sarah LEADER on 1881 census living in Berkshire,
Sarah’s bn c1847 Newbury they have child
Rose Elizabeth age 3

this appears to be her birth entry on GRO Indexes with mmn

Rose Elizabeth LEADER mmn COPAS     
1877  S Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 02C  Page 224   
Edited to add sister Mary born 1885 mmn COPAS

If Henry did marry Jane DELL this could possibly be her death entry

Dec 1875 Newbury Jane MARSHALL  age 35

Working on the theory that Henry Charles Marshall did marry Jane Dell in 1874, there is a burial for a Jane Marshall aged 22 on 15th Dec 1875 at St Mary Shaw-cum-Donnington and this death reg:

MARSHALL, MARY  JANE      aaged 22 
GRO Reference: 1875  D Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 02C  Page 153

No death reg for for a Jane aged 22 in 1875 found

There is this birth for a Jane Dell:

DELL, JANE        Mother's maiden name CHALLIS      
GRO Reference: 1851  J Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 06  Page 236

and this possible marriage for her parents:

Marriages Mar 1849   (>99%)

CHALLIS    Anne Maria Honoria         Newbury    6   270    
Dell    William         Newbury    6   270   

then 1851 census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGBY-9WS

1861 census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7ZR-6MS

1871 census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFXV-7MP


and possibily  Jane in 1871 census recorded as Mary J Dell ( can't see a Mary Dell born Newbury c1852 recorded prior to this census)
 
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFXJ-1L6

There are these twins births registered in the 1st quarter of 1876 

MARSHALL, ANNIE  MARIA      MMN DELL  <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<    
GRO Reference: 1876  M Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 02C  Page 253    
MARSHALL, SARAH  ANN      MMN DELL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      
GRO Reference: 1876  M Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 02C  Page 253

<<<<<<<<<<<<<Named after her grandmother Anne Maria???

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sarah's middle name changed to Amelia after the birth was registered???

possible death for baby Annie:
MARSHALL, ANNIE        aged 0      
GRO Reference: 1876  D Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 02C  Page 155

Burial:
22nd October 1876
St Mary Shaw-cum-Donnington
Annie Marshall
aged 10 months

[Ladyhawk]

I have determined that Henry Charles Marshall married Sarah Copas in 1874.   

The age factor has come into this, Sarah Copas (Marshall) died in 1875 aged 17 years, and at that time Henry would have been approximately 19 years of age. 

 Child Sarah Amelia aged 5 years in 1881 census, makes her birth date approximately 1875, and that is where I see that maybe Sarah Marshall died in childbirth.

Census information has also provided me with much information.

I am a little loathe to outlay money for certificates at this stage, as there are family members here in Australia, who have done their trees, am still awaiting their replies (I have DNA match with them) as to whether they have copy of marriage certificate in Australia, as well as maybe death certificate for Henry Charles Marshall.     

Hi

I'm still in two minds as to whether Henry Charles MARSHALL married Sarah COPAS without seeing the 1874 marriage certificate, my instinct says he married Jane DELL but I have no proof to back this up.

Sep 1874  Newbury    2c   413   
COPAS Sarah           
Dell Jane             
LEADER  James             
Marshall Henry Charles  

The assumption I was working on was the 1881 census and birth entries I found which seems to point to Sarah COPAS marrying James LEADER and then the birth entries of their dau's Rose Elizabeth 1877 & Mary Ann LEADER 1885 their mmn COPAS

If Henry did marry Jane DELL this could possibly be her death entry

Dec 1875 Newbury Jane MARSHALL  age 35[/b]

Working on the theory that Henry Charles Marshall did marry Jane Dell in 1874,

a burial for a Jane Marshall aged 22 on 15th Dec 1875 at St Mary Shaw-cum-Donnington and this death reg:

MARSHALL, MARY  JANE      aged 22 
1875  D Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 02C  Page 153

No death reg for for a Jane aged 22 in 1875 found

There is this birth for a Jane Dell:

DELL, JANE        Mother's maiden name CHALLIS      
1851  J Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 06  Page 236

and this possible marriage for her parents:

Marriages Mar 1849   Newbury    6   270

CHALLIS    Anne Maria Honoria             
Dell    William        

There are these twins births registered in the 1st quarter of 1876 

MARSHALL, ANNIE  MARIA      MMN DELL    <<<
1876  M Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 02C  Page 253 
 
MARSHALL, SARAH  ANN      MMN DELL      >>>
1876  M Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 02C  Page 253

<<<Named after her grandmother Anne Maria???

>>>Sarah's middle name changed to Amelia after the birth was registered???

possible death for baby Annie:

MARSHALL, ANNIE        aged 0     
1876  D Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 02C  Page 155

Burial:
22nd October 1876
St Mary Shaw-cum-Donnington
Annie Marshall  aged 10 months

All the info. you have posted looks very feasible but the marriage certificate would conclusively answer who married who in 1874, father's names etc.....

[Ladyhawk]

have added the info. below for you to keep just in case it relates

DELL, ESTHER  MARIA  mmn CHALLIS    
1853  D Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 02C  Page 173   

DELL, WILLIAM  FREDERICK  mmn CHALLIS     
1858  S Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 02C  Page 204   

William Frederick Dell Birth 1857 Berkshire
Death Date:   1939
Death Place:   Richmond, Yarra City, Victoria, Australia
Cemetery:   Melbourne General Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place:   Carlton, Melbourne City, Victoria, Australia
Has Bio?:   Y
Spouse:   Johanna Louisa Dell
Children:   William Frederick Dell Johanna Louisa Victoria Dell
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/136215715

Annie Maria DELL age 1 from the 1871 census, granddaughter of William & Anne
as posted by candrjm https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFXV-7MP
   
DELL, ANNIE  MARIA     -  (mmn blank)   
1870  M Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 02C  Page 261   

She could be either Esther or Jane Dell’s daughter as mother’s maiden name has been  left blank

1881c  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27H-3RRG
Anne M DELL 1870 Newbury , granddaughter of Joseph & Ann M EGGLETON

Anne DELL remarried Mar 1896 Newbury    2c   545   
   
Abraham    Emily                
DELL    Anne Maria                
EGGELTON    Joseph                
EGGLETON    Joseph                
GOODCHILD    John

Annie Maria Eggleton age 49
Registration    1882 Jan-Feb-Mar Newbury  Volume:   2c Page:   159             

1891c Annie Maria DELL servant https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:719L-52M

1896 Mar Newbury Annie Maria DELL marries Abel BEESLEY

1901c Annie M Beesley https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS3T-C65

Mr Abel BEESLEY occ furnaceman ge:   36
Departure Date:   17 Apr 1912
Port of Departure:   London, England
Destination Port:   Melbourne, Australia
Ship Name:   Themistocles

Mrs A BEESLEY Age:   43
Departure Date:   10 May 1913
Port of Departure:   London, England
Destination Port:   Melbourne, Australia
Ship Name:   Makarini
Three daughters with her Miss W, N & A age 17,15,13

BEESLEY, WINIFRED  ANNIE MAY mmn DELL     
1896  J Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 02C  Page 246   

BEESELY, NELLIE  ISABEL mmn    DELL     
1897  D Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 02C  Page 250

BEESLEY, AMY  JEANNETTA  mmn DELL 
1899  D Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 02C  Page 245

Wondering if this might be the death of Jane Dell's sister

Esther DELL age 18
1871 Dec Newbury volume:   2c Page:   154

[janjim]

Well thank you everyone, I will look at this more thoroughly shortly.
My only thoughts were with Jane Dell as being Henry Charles Marshall's wife, she died aged 35 years, I just thought there was quite a difference in ages, as Henry was only 19 years of age at the time.

In the meantime, can anyone help me with shipping records for Sarah & Thomas Thatcher and their two children, Reginald Marshall and Dorothy Louisa Thatcher.

I might find something in those records, that could determine more information on the family.
Jan

[stevemiller]

Hello Jan,
If you are following through a DNA match there is a link between CHALLIS and BRINDLEY.

Charlotte Challis married William Brindley at Newbury on 25 Dec 1815. They were the great-grandparents of the Joseph Brindley (born 1895) who you were asking about on another post.

Or am I muddying the waters?

best wishes
Steve

[Ladyhawk]

My only thoughts were with Jane Dell as being Henry Charles Marshall's wife, she died aged 35 years, I just thought there was quite a difference in ages, as Henry was only 19 years of age at the time.

candrjm did post this death possibility for Jane Marshall

Working on the theory that Henry Charles Marshall did marry Jane Dell in 1874,

there is a burial for a

Jane Marshall aged 22 on 15th Dec 1875 at St Mary Shaw-cum-Donnington

and this death reg:

MARSHALL, MARY  JANE      aaged 22 
1875  D Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 02C  Page 153

No death reg for a Jane aged 22 in 1875 found

There is this birth for a Jane Dell:

DELL, JANE        Mother's maiden name CHALLIS     
1851  J Quarter in NEWBURY  Volume 06  Page 236

Hopefully one of your family relatives in Australia might have the 1874 marriage certificate to confirm who Henry Charles Marshall married Jane DELL or Sarah COPAS - please come back and let us know if you find out anything 

In the meantime, can anyone help me with shipping records for

Sarah & Thomas Thatcher and their two children,

Reginald Marshall and Dorothy Louisa Thatcher.

I have looked on UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960 but not having much luck I’m afraid 

There is this entry but Christian name not given and his age is out, your Reginald Marshall birth registered in 1895

Mr R Marshall occ farm student Age:   23 (born c 1891)
Departure    9 Jul 1914
Port of Departure:   London, England
Destination Port:   Melbourne, Australia
Ship Name:   Port Lincoln

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLWW-2S8P
Dorothy Louise Dunstan nee Thatcher died 1970 burial:St Kilda East, Victoria, Australia
Headstone
In loving memory of SARAH loved wife of Thomas Thatcher
mother of Reg. & Louie (did they miss the the letter ‘s’ from name Louie )
died 7th August 1938, Thomas died  (looks to read 1969)
Dorothy Louise Dunstan died ? ? 1970

Australia, Victoria, Index to Probate Registers, 1841-1989 - Dorothy
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JVNK-DT1
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JVNK-6YS

1911 she is listed as Louisa Marshall
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7LC-PQK

EDITED

Do you know if they had more children might narrow down dates?

A possibility of 2 more children

THATCHER, EDWARD  THOMAS GEORGE mmn MARSHALL     
1915  J Quarter in BRADFIELD  Volume 02C  Page 593   
his death registered 1948 Berkshire dob 16 Mar 1915

THATCHER, KATHLEEN  BEATRICE ROSE mmn   MARSHALL     
1916  S Quarter in BRADFIELD  Volume 02C  Page 610   
her death registered in 2004 Berkshire dob 31 Jul 1916

[candrjm]

Marriage:
Place: St Nicolas Church Newbury
Date: 13th September 1874
Groom: Henry Charles Marshall, Full Age, Bachelor, occ: Groom, Abode: Newbury
Bride: Jane Dell, Full Age, Spinster, Abode: Newbury
Groom's father: David Marshall, occ: Labourer
Bride's father: William Dell, occ: Labourer
Witnesses: George Marshall and Bessy Slater

Marriage:
Place: St Nicolas Church Newbury
Date: 18th March 1849
Groom: William Dell, Full Age, Bachelor, occ: Porter, Abode: Newbury
Bride: Anne Maria Hanora Challis, Age: 20 years, Spinster, Abode: Newbury
Groom's father: William Dell, occ: Bargeman
Bride's father: Frederick Challis, occ: Bricklayer
Witnesses: John Dell and George Stillman

Baptism:
Place: St Nicolas Church Newbury
Date: 3rd November 1813
Name: William Dell
Parents: William and Harriet Dell
Father's Occ: Bargeman

1815 census:

Keen's Yard, West Side, Northbrook Street, Newbury

William Dell aged 24 occ: Bargeman <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Harriet Dell aged 23>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
John Dell aged 4
William Dell aged 2

<<<<<<<Possible burial: 12/12/1835 William Dell aged 45 St Nicolas Newbury

Possibly Harriet in 1841 census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQRH-YHC

>>>>>>>Possible burial 26/2/1847 Harriet Dell aged 56 St Nicolas Newbury



Possibly Frederick Challis in 1815 census: (NOTE: relationships not given)

Lovidge's Yard, East Side, Northbrook Street, Newbury

Lawrence Challis aged 50 occ: Kiln plate Worker
Ruth Challis aged 44
Jane Challis aged 20
Henry Challis aged 18
Frederick Challis aged 13   (in Cowslads)****************************
John Challis aged 9
Sophia Challis aged 7
Eliza Challis aged 6
Susanna Challis aged 3

******************** explanation of Cowslads can be found here:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=351686.0