Author Topic: What happened to criminal ancestor?  (Read 777 times)

Offline brigidmac

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Re: What happened to criminal ancestor?
« Reply #27 on: Sunday 27 January 19 23:21 GMT (UK) »
I was referring to the 1856 marriage of A george Bennet to Hannah * Eliza

Cited in first post

*Sorry i must have missed the date of transportation i hadnt realised the first crimes were in England as towns often have same names in Australia
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

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Offline russell12

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Re: What happened to criminal ancestor?
« Reply #28 on: Monday 28 January 19 17:58 GMT (UK) »
I was referring to the 1856 marriage of A george Bennet to Hannah * Eliza

Cited in first post

*Sorry i must have missed the date of transportation i hadnt realised the first crimes were in England as towns often have same names in Australia

I'll have just one last look at the Eliza/George 1856 marriage in Hitchin - just to be sure! Since Phoebe was born the same year - it would make sense if it was them. Whats the likelihoods that they didn't marry? I've researched all of the other cross keys pub 'bums' (his inner circle) and surprisingly they all attended church regularly and got married... so I don't know why George wouldn't have  ??? would the Church (of England) have christened Phoebe if she was a 'bastard' child?

EDIT: Sooo - Girl Guide suggested that 'Eliza Taylor' was the wife of George Bennett - but (!) - I've found a marriage record for Eliza Taylor (I didn't know her maiden name until now so that helps with further research) and his brother James instead...



(The father was also called George Bennett in case your wondering why the name is the same)

So unless James married his brothers 'girl friend' (which would be a bit odd if you asked me) - Eliza Taylor can't be the mother of Phoebe!



^ Perhaps she didn't die as a child? Since James and his family moved to Oxfordshire? She would have been 27 if she married in 1883 - a bit late in life for a Victorian woman but not out of the question. Not sure if 'Bennett' is listed as the maiden or married surname though...

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Offline Girl Guide

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Re: What happened to criminal ancestor?
« Reply #29 on: Monday 28 January 19 19:04 GMT (UK) »
Looks like this Phoebe married a Herbert Brundle

Marriages Sep 1883   
BENNETT    Phoebe Eliza        Henley    3a   991    
BRUNDLE    Herbert James        Henley    3a   991

First child

BRUNDLE, HERBERT  GEORGE     BENNETT     
GRO Reference: 1884  S Quarter in WATFORD  Volume 03A  Page 549

1891 census Glenthorne Road, Hammersmith, Fulham, London & Middlesex - Herbert, Phoebe and three sons.

Registration district   Fulham
Archive reference   RG12
Piece number   38
Folio   99
Page   50

1901 census has the addition of two daughters and the 1911 shows Phoebe's place of birth as Abbots Langley, Herts.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline russell12

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Re: SOLVED What happened to criminal ancestor?
« Reply #30 on: Monday 28 January 19 19:11 GMT (UK) »
Looks like this Phoebe married a Herbert Brundle

Marriages Sep 1883   
BENNETT    Phoebe Eliza        Henley    3a   991    
BRUNDLE    Herbert James        Henley    3a   991

First child

BRUNDLE, HERBERT  GEORGE     BENNETT     
GRO Reference: 1884  S Quarter in WATFORD  Volume 03A  Page 549

1891 census Glenthorne Road, Hammersmith, Fulham, London & Middlesex - Herbert, Phoebe and three sons.

Registration district   Fulham
Archive reference   RG12
Piece number   38
Folio   99
Page   50

Am I correct in reading one of her sons was named 'George'? (not sure why she would do that since he was such a dead beat dad!) Or is that simply listing the name of her father? Either way I'd say that more enough confirms this is the same Phoebe - thanks for finding this :)

EDIT: The daughter Edith is listed as an 'apprentice pianoforte' what the devil is that?? How on earth did they get the money for music lessons  ???

Anyhow I filled in the children for Phoebe which I think - leaves this 'mystery' - solved! (I won't bother researching any further then them), Thanks everyone so much for all the help  :D

Offline Daisypetal

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Re: What happened to criminal ancestor?
« Reply #31 on: Saturday 02 February 19 21:26 GMT (UK) »

Hi,

I don't know if you've seen it but just for interest, in 1939 Edith is a Pianoforte Key Busher. I think this is tuning or repairing pianos. Gaisford street was in Kentish town which seems to have had a lot of piano makers. I wonder if "pianoforte apprentice" in 1911 meant she was learning to make pianofortes rather than play them :-\

Regards,
Daisy
All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Offline russell12

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Re: What happened to criminal ancestor?
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 03 February 19 14:07 GMT (UK) »

Hi,

I don't know if you've seen it but just for interest, in 1939 Edith is a Pianoforte Key Busher. I think this is tuning or repairing pianos. Gaisford street was in Kentish town which seems to have had a lot of piano makers. I wonder if "pianoforte apprentice" in 1911 meant she was learning to make pianofortes rather than play them :-\

Regards,
Daisy

Thanks for your response,

I think your right - in that she must have been learning how to make them rather then play.

Do you know what kind of 'person' this job attracted? e.g. well educated? the impoverished etc.

I'm just interested as I've never heard of a 'Pianoforte Key Busher' before!  :D

Offline Daisypetal

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Re: What happened to criminal ancestor?
« Reply #33 on: Sunday 03 February 19 20:17 GMT (UK) »

Hi,

She could be a factory worker. I found these searching Google for "piano bushing" rather than busher, that give more results than pianoforte busher :)

https://londonist.com/london/history/kentish-town-centre-of-the-universe-for-pianos

and a film of a German piano being made in 1926,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfemAvrupJ4


In 1939 the people living with her have the following occupations,

Cinema Usherettes
Alloy Metal Engineer
(wife)  Unpaid Domestic Duties
Dental Assistant Sales Women
Office Cleaning General Post Office
Cook Canteen

Hope this helps :)

Daisy
All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)