Unlawful question in 1829 trial in Ireland

[josey]

Browsing the Irish newspapers for Murrays in Borrisokane, I found a report of a trial of Leger for the murder of Michael Hogan & others during a funeral for a man named Smith in Borrisokane on 28 Jun 1829. James Murray was a witness & 2 injured men were taken to his house on the Portumna Road during the shooting incident. He was asked if there were more men than women in the crowd who had assembled for the funeral. He replied that he would only answer lawful questions. What was unlawful about the question?

And BTW gives me a great lead to James being in the 5th Dragoons or 2nd Horse!!

And from the tithe applotments Michael Hogan was a neighbour to the Murrays in Killeen - I think the murdered man was the father of Michael Hogan who married Judith Murray [sister of my ancestor Philip] in 1831. Possibly James was Philip's father.....

[RJ_Paton]

I think in this instance that he was being evasive and was basically saying that he would only answer questions pertaining to the matter at hand

[josey]

  stroppy then...thank you.

[IgorStrav]

I suppose it was a politer way of saying "and what's that got to do with it?"

[josey]

Nice to think the Murrays were polite in the 1820s  . There certainly seemed to be some off topic questions about colours worn no doubt with religious significance. I wonder what 'wore laurel' means?

Slightly off topic but have found Corporal James Murray's 7 Jun 1791 discharge at Belturbet from 2nd Horse [17 yr 6 mo] & 5th Dragoons [3 yr 1 mo]. Discharged 'being troubled with rheumatic pains and worn out';  5 ft 11 in & age 41, so born 1750 ish in Cannony I think this may be Carmnoney?, Antrim. This one newspaper snippet is helping me make great progress with my Murrays.

[Maiden Stone]

Nice to think the Murrays were polite in the 1820s  . There certainly seemed to be some off topic questions about colours worn no doubt with religious significance. I wonder what 'wore laurel' means?

Wearing green = symbol of Irish nationalism.
See the Irish ballad "The Wearing of the Green". Refrain:  " They are hanging men and women for the wearing of the green".
Edit. Laurel is a symbol of victory. Also strength and endurance. As it's evergreen the lad may have been wearing it as a green symbol. Mention of wearing laurel in the context of the case may have had several significant meanings - supporting Irish nationalist cause, enduring suppression, remaining strong, victory of the cause. There may have been other meanings - perhaps remembrance of those who died for the cause.
Some of the people in the court case would have been living at the time of the 1798 rebellion and Robert Emmett's later abortive rising and execution and other disturbances and retributions which took place in that era. Some of them may have been members of secret societies.

[Maiden Stone]

stroppy then...thank you.

He may have been trying to avoid incriminating himself. He may have been a hostile witness.

[MaxD]

My tentative suggestion would be that in this context wearing the laurel was a synonym for wearing of the green.  A Hansard report (admittedly some time later) https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1884/may/15/prevention-of-crime-ireland-act-1882 seems to treat laurel in the context as green so the counsel is asking is he a nationalist or an orange sympathiser?

The other usage of wearing laurels, that is as a sign of success in some endeavour, doesn't seem to fit the context.

MaxD

[RJ_Paton]

My tentative suggestion would be that in this context wearing the laurel was a synonym for wearing of the green.  A Hansard report (admittedly some time later) https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1884/may/15/prevention-of-crime-ireland-act-1882 seems to treat laurel in the context as green so the counsel is asking is he a nationalist or an orange sympathiser?

MaxD

I would agree and believe that is why he was being evasive with his "lawful" question reply - basically saying that the answer to that question had nothing to do with the matter at hand.