Author Topic: Harry Jhonson/Johnson  (Read 365 times)

Offline Ricardo77

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Harry Jhonson/Johnson
« on: Sunday 03 February 19 18:39 GMT (UK) »
Hi

I'm looking to find a man named Harry Jhonson or Johnson. The only details I have for him is as follows:

He worked in what is now the West Midlands (and was then Staffordshire) area between 1911 and 1917 as a 'Horse Dealer'; which I believe means 'Ostler', a person who looks after horses at an hostilely or public house. He would have either frequented or worked at the Golden Lion Pub, 5 Chell Street in Bradley, Staffordshire around 1911/12.

His name is not entered on his first daughters birth certificate in 1912, although she was born in Bradley, Staffordshire. He is believed by relatives to be a man from Sedgley in Staffordshire, which at that time also included what is today described separately as Sedgley and Coseley.

His name appears on his second daughters birth certificate in 1916 with the spelling corrected to 'Jhonson', from 'Johnson' and counter signed as a correction. His address is given as 25 Lowe Street, Wolverhampton. His occupation is described as 'Horse Dealer'.

His name appears on his next daughters birth certificate as Johnson in Jan 1918 at an address of 10 Edge Street, Hulme, Manchester. His occupation is described as a labourer in an iron works and in brackets it says 'ex private A.V.C.'. So I presume  between 1912-1916 he served as a private in the Army Vetrinary Corps.

His name then appears on a baptism record in Feb 1918 from St Marks Church, Hulme where his second and third child are baptised under he name 'Jhonson' and his occupation is listed as a 'Stamper'. Which is the operator of a hammer or press in a drop forge or press shop.

This is the sole information I have about this man as his children were later placed for adoption. Their mother was born in 1892 and married another man in 1919, a year after the birth of the third child.

Can anyone offer any help or advice on how I might find further information to help identify this man?




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Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Harry Jhonson/Johnson
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 03 February 19 19:18 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat  :)

How old would Harry have been in 1911 and whom did he marry?  Can you give us the name of the first daughter?
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

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Offline Ricardo77

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Re: Harry Jhonson/Johnson
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 03 February 19 19:47 GMT (UK) »
The mother of all three children was Hilda Mary Hampson (my great grandmother), born in 1892, Coseley, Staffordshire.

On the birth and baptism records after the first birth she uses the surname 'Jhonson' but there is no record of them being married.

 The first daughter was bought up by her grand parents as one of their children and kept the mothers maiden name. She was Vera Hampson.

I don't know how old Harry was and the only information I have is from the two birth/baptism certificates and second hand information from the children of the generation of people who knew the children's mother. They think he was married before and chose to go back to his wife, but again there is no evedience to support that either.

I can guess that he would have been born between 1880 and 1895, but have no evidence to support this other than that the gap between the children's births could accommodate a term of service with the Army Veterinary Corps.


I am trying to trace the adoption records but as it was organised by a local church who dont now have the records and neither do the Staffordshire archives who took on the churches old records pre 1970, I'm not holding out on finding these.

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Harry Jhonson/Johnson
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 03 February 19 21:16 GMT (UK) »
This sounds like this is an extremely tough nut to crack, if you crack it at all.

The information that you have is very nebulous, nothing concrete at all.  No doubt people hearing the surname would have written it as Johnson or Jonson unless he made a point of correcting that.

Have you tried to find any records of his time in the A.V.C.?  You may not have any success as a large number of WW1 records were destroyed during WW2.

I don't know what else to suggest.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline Ricardo77

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Re: Harry Jhonson/Johnson
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 03 February 19 22:26 GMT (UK) »
I have written to the A.V.C. and waiting on a reply. You're right there is nothing concrete to get to the bottom of though. I'm hoping the unusual spelling of the surname might help if there is any records.

There seems to be some evidence of people with the name Jhonson around the Hulme area at that time and no evidence for that spelling in the Midlands.

I'm at a loss unless any paperwork turns up about the adoption.


Offline whiteout7

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Re: Harry Jhonson/Johnson
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 05 February 19 10:22 GMT (UK) »
There are a few of them in the British medal Archives
Private Harry Johnson Army Vetrinary Corps

Which one?
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/british-army-medal-index-cards-1914-1920/

Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline Ricardo77

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Re: Harry Jhonson/Johnson
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 05 February 19 10:35 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Yes I had seen the medical card in the national archives. There are also few more listed on the ancestry website. I don't think the medical cards give a date of birth or a residential address though (I apologize if I'm wrong on this).

I wondered if there is a way of trace each of the medical cards/soldier service number back to identify what area the individual came from.

I know its a needle in a haystack to identify him with such limited information. I personally think the 'Jhonson' spelling that's appeared on the baptism records and one of the birth certificates is probably correct.

The address I have for him in 1916 (25 Lowe Street, Wolverhampton) was occupied by a Charles Gittos in 1914. I am trying to follow up on if there is a link between the two men or if its a coincidence they shared the address. I cant see any electoral roll information for 1916.

It's a possibility he stayed at the address he gave in 1918 (10 Edge Street, Hulme) at the mother of his children returned to the west midlands. I still have to check the electoral roll information for that too.

I don't hold out a lot of hope for tracing him at the moment.




Offline whiteout7

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Re: Harry Jhonson/Johnson
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 05 February 19 10:36 GMT (UK) »
FindMyPast has some reocrds

Henry   Johnson   1869   SE/17481   Army Veterinary Corps   ó   Wo 363 - First World War Service Records 'Burnt Documents'   


Henry Evans   Johnson   1875   SE/12944   Army Veterinary Corps   ó   Wo 363 - First World War Service Records 'Burnt Documents'

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-Records/british-army-service-records?sourceID=13&utm_source=affiliate&utm_content=Army+Service+Numbers+1881-1918&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=%20fmp_uk&awc=2114_1549362660_9d0f0dfdbe106499aa38332bc23dd82b

Is there anyway to narrow down your mans birth year further?
Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline heywood

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Re: Harry Jhonson/Johnson
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 05 February 19 10:55 GMT (UK) »
Hi

I'm looking to find a man named Harry Jhonson or Johnson. The only details I have for him is as follows:

He worked in what is now the West Midlands (and was then Staffordshire) area between 1911 and 1917 as a 'Horse Dealer'; which I believe means 'Ostler', a person who looks after horses at an hostilely or public house. He would have either frequented or worked at the Golden Lion Pub, 5 Chell Street in Bradley, Staffordshire around 1911/12.


A Horse Dealer would trade in horses and would be different to an Ostler.

I canít see a Harry Johnson as a dealer or Ostler though in 1911  :-\


Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk