Author Topic: Jane McAdam's marriage to John Kerr and who are her parents.  (Read 8880 times)

Offline 2Harriet

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Jane McAdam's marriage to John Kerr and who are her parents.
« on: Sunday 03 February 19 22:13 GMT (UK) »
Jane Mc Adam had an illigitimate daughter Annie Douglas Mc Adam 22 Feb 1859 at Knocknain, Kirkcolm Wigtownshire.  When  Annie was married to George Meikle 16 Jun 1882 her surname was Kerr and  it states her parents as Jane McAdam and John Kerr who was a Flesher. It is assumed that John and Jane were still alive then as not marked deceased.  I can find no marriage for Jane and John and no death for Jane either. I cannot find a John Kerr who is a Flesher on the 1881 census. Since Annie was surname Mc Adam on her birth record it is assumed she took on Kerr after her mother married John Kerr.  I have spent a fortune on SP searching ... Anyone got any ideas please on Jane and Johns marriage, Janes parents or death?
Ayrshire-Meikle, Gordon, Hainey
Wigtownshire-Gordon, Murray,
Dumfriesshire- Beattie, Ireland, Morrison
Kirkcudbright- Heron, Herries, Garmory
Carlisle- Morrison, Johnston, Irving
Ireland- Daly

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,078
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Jane McAdam's marriage to John Kerr and who are her parents.
« Reply #1 on: Monday 04 February 19 00:17 GMT (UK) »
Since Annie was surname Mc Adam on her birth record it is assumed she took on Kerr after her mother married John Kerr.
That is not a safe assumption.

Even if the whole parish knew who the father of an illegitimate bairn was, the father's name could only be on the birth certificate if he accompanied the mother to the registrar's when she went to register the birth, and signed the certificate. And it's very common for an illegitimate child to use its father's name, or even to turn up with different surnames in different censuses.

Look carefully at the marriage certificate. How, exactly, is Annie's mother's name shown?

If it just says 'Jane McAdam', this means that Jane had not married by the time of Annie's marriage. If it says 'Jane Kerr, M S McAdam", this means that Jane McAdam (claimed that she) had married John Kerr.

have a look in the transcription of the 1861 census at https://freecen1.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl - I think Annie is probably the Ann Kerr, aged 2, a boarder in the household of John Hamilton at Clendrie Cottage, Kirkcolm in 1861. In 1871 she is a 12-year-old outworker, still with the Hamilton family at Clendrie. In 1881 she is a domestic servant in the household of Thomas Blair Hutchison in the parish of Colmonell.

The fact that Annie was boarded out as a child supports the view that her parents did not marry, because if they had, surely they would have taken her to live with them?

There are three possible ways you might find out more about Annie's parents.

First, it is possible that Annie came under the care of the parochial board, who arranged to board her with the Hamilton family. If so, there would have been detailed records of her in the registers of the Kirkcolm parochial board (Poor Law records). I have no idea whether these have survived, but I would start at http://www.dumgal.gov.uk/article/15308/Local-archives

Next, as the pregnancy was illegitimate, it would almost certainly have come to the attention of the Kirk Session of Kirkcolm, and if so their minutes would probably contain information about the errant couple. The surviving Kirk Session records are in the National Records of Scotland, and there does seem to be a volume dealing with 1835-1884 and an overlapping one for 1862-1871 (sometimes it took the kirk session a year or more to catch up with a couple who had sinned). Look in the NRS catalogue https://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/search.aspx and use reference starting CH2/788. These have been digitised but as yet can be consulted only in the Historic Search Room in Edinburgh or in a small number of local archives including Aberdeen, Glasgow, Hawick and Inverness.

Thirdly, there might have been a court case to get a paternity order to make the father pay for the maintenance of the child. Many of these have been indexed and the indexes can be consulted at  https://www.scottishindexes.com

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Rosinish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,239
  • PASSED & PAST
    • View Profile
Re: Jane McAdam's marriage to John Kerr and who are her parents.
« Reply #2 on: Monday 04 February 19 01:22 GMT (UK) »
"Jane Mc Adam had an illigitimate daughter Annie Douglas Mc Adam"

Not sure this is strictly true as she is referenced as;

MCADAM ANN DOUGLAS 1859
887/ 14 Kirkcolm

"I cannot find a John Kerr who is a Flesher on the 1881 census"

Often a middle name indicates the surname of the reputed father if not a family name?

Forfarian has found who is likely your Ann but have you located Jane McAdam (mother) in the census' of 1861 onward & a possible male suspect with surname Douglas?

Annie






South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Wendy2305

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Jane McAdam's marriage to John Kerr and who are her parents.
« Reply #3 on: Monday 04 February 19 07:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi not your Annie but have You spotted Annie D McAdam who married a Robert Kerr in 1871 Galstin and died Annie Douglas McAdam in 1877
With the coincidence of names maybe related


Offline 2Harriet

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Jane McAdam's marriage to John Kerr and who are her parents.
« Reply #4 on: Monday 04 February 19 08:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi Rosinish, yes thanks , her birth name was Ann not Annie. She was later known as Annie on her marriage record.
Ayrshire-Meikle, Gordon, Hainey
Wigtownshire-Gordon, Murray,
Dumfriesshire- Beattie, Ireland, Morrison
Kirkcudbright- Heron, Herries, Garmory
Carlisle- Morrison, Johnston, Irving
Ireland- Daly

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,078
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Jane McAdam's marriage to John Kerr and who are her parents.
« Reply #5 on: Monday 04 February 19 09:35 GMT (UK) »
her birth name was Ann not Annie. She was later known as Annie on her marriage record.
Never dismiss a possible match on grounds of spelling. Ever. Spelling was a very inexact science in the 19th century and you need to be aware of all alternative spellings and name variants.

An Ann can turn up in later records as Anna, Anne, Annie, Nan, Nanny, Nannie and Nancy atc
An Agnes can also turn up as Nancy, or as Agness, Aggie, Ness, Nessie etc
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Rosinish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,239
  • PASSED & PAST
    • View Profile
Re: Jane McAdam's marriage to John Kerr and who are her parents.
« Reply #6 on: Monday 04 February 19 10:20 GMT (UK) »
2H,

Was there an actual address on the BC for your Ann Douglas McAdam & was it her mother who registered the birth or someone else?

Annie

South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,078
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Jane McAdam's marriage to John Kerr and who are her parents.
« Reply #7 on: Monday 04 February 19 10:24 GMT (UK) »
Place of birth was Knocknain, Kirkcolm according to 2Harriet's first post, but she didn't say who registered the birth.

There's a 28-year-old dairymaid named Jean McAdam, born Ireland, at Cairnside, Kirkcolm, in 1861. Could this be Annie's mother Jane McAdam, I wonder?

Knockneen and Cairnside are quite close together - see
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=54.9900&lon=-5.1502&layers=5&b=1

Clendry is further away, south of the village of Kirkcolm
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=54.9690&lon=-5.0838&layers=5&b=1

Photos of Knockneen https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NW9970
and Cairnside https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NW9870
and near Clendrie https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NX0267 - both taken from the road up to Clendrie, so these are the views that your Annie would have known throughout her childhood.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline 2Harriet

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Jane McAdam's marriage to John Kerr and who are her parents.
« Reply #8 on: Monday 04 February 19 20:02 GMT (UK) »
Thank you everyone , In am working my way gradually through all your ideas.
FORFARIAN,
Thank you for all the time you have taken to help me. It looks like I have made a sows ear of this research I did many years ago .
Annie Douglas Kerrs’  marriage [ born as Ann Douglas McAdam in 1859 ] refers to her parents as John Kerr, Flesher and Jane Kerr M.S McAdam so I cannot assume her mother and John were married.
I previously had worked out somehow that at approx. Age 10 Annie is  with her grandparents Hugh Kerr and Ann McCartney in the 1871 census…they have a son John who I thought could be the man she  later claims is her father. In the 1861 census there’s an Annie Kerr wrongly transcribed by Ancestry as daughter of Hugh and Annie and born 1861 but is actually the illegitimate child of their 18yr old daughter Margaret who lives with them also at 61 Main St Kirkcolm. I am so confused. Clearly this Annie b 1861 is not the one who married my George Meikle and Hugh and Ann are not the grandparents of Ann/ Annie D  McAdam or Kerr  b 1859.  Still working on the rest of your reply which sends me off on a more likely route. Thanks
Ayrshire-Meikle, Gordon, Hainey
Wigtownshire-Gordon, Murray,
Dumfriesshire- Beattie, Ireland, Morrison
Kirkcudbright- Heron, Herries, Garmory
Carlisle- Morrison, Johnston, Irving
Ireland- Daly