Author Topic: Consanguinity mentioned in marriage record  (Read 1044 times)

Online Wexflyer

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
  • Not Crown Copyright
    • View Profile
Re: Consanguinity mentioned in marriage record
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 22 June 19 23:16 BST (UK) »
Since I posted earlier on this thread, I have been told that 4th degree of consanguinity meant the marriage mates were first cousins. you count yourself as 1, your parent = 2, their sibling = 3, their child = 4.
The person who told me was making an educated guess, but it fits better with the records I have seen.

No, no no!

First cousin marriages were almost non-existant.  Requiring actual Papal dispensation, which would be noted. I have only ever seen one.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens; CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter; COSGRAVE Castlebridge; CULLEN Lady's Island; CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook; DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack; FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown; HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wexford; McGILL Litter; MORRIS Forth Commons; PIERCE Lady's Island; POTTS Bennettstown; REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wexford; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit; SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wexford; SMYTH Gerry/Oulart; WALSH Kilrane/Wexford

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Online Wexflyer

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
  • Not Crown Copyright
    • View Profile
Re: Consanguinity mentioned in marriage record
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 22 June 19 23:18 BST (UK) »
Some registers have a note "paid the bishop".

I think you will find that in most cases, registers with this notation were mensal parishes. That is, the bishop was (theoretically) the parish priest (PP), and his administrator (Adm) was paying the bishop, in his role as PP.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens; CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter; COSGRAVE Castlebridge; CULLEN Lady's Island; CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook; DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack; FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown; HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wexford; McGILL Litter; MORRIS Forth Commons; PIERCE Lady's Island; POTTS Bennettstown; REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wexford; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit; SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wexford; SMYTH Gerry/Oulart; WALSH Kilrane/Wexford

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline oldohiohome

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
    • View Profile
Re: Consanguinity mentioned in marriage record
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 22 June 19 23:29 BST (UK) »
Since I posted earlier on this thread, I have been told that 4th degree of consanguinity meant the marriage mates were first cousins. you count yourself as 1, your parent = 2, their sibling = 3, their child = 4.
The person who told me was making an educated guess, but it fits better with the records I have seen.
No, no no!

First cousin marriages were almost non-existant.  Requiring actual Papal dispensation, which would be noted. I have only ever seen one.

then what are they?
Cambridgeshire: Billups, Cropley; Derbyshire: Jenkinson, Gratton; Co Down: O'Rourke, Rodgers, Cunningham

Online Wexflyer

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
  • Not Crown Copyright
    • View Profile
Re: Consanguinity mentioned in marriage record
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 22 June 19 23:31 BST (UK) »
I think the second Latin word is salus, which can mean a variety of things, including safety, salvation, and well-being. I think the priest is indicating that they were dispensed, even though not technically required, to be "on the safe side", so to speak.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens; CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter; COSGRAVE Castlebridge; CULLEN Lady's Island; CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook; DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack; FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown; HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wexford; McGILL Litter; MORRIS Forth Commons; PIERCE Lady's Island; POTTS Bennettstown; REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wexford; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit; SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wexford; SMYTH Gerry/Oulart; WALSH Kilrane/Wexford

Online Wexflyer

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
  • Not Crown Copyright
    • View Profile
Re: Consanguinity mentioned in marriage record
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 22 June 19 23:35 BST (UK) »
Since I posted earlier on this thread, I have been told that 4th degree of consanguinity meant the marriage mates were first cousins. you count yourself as 1, your parent = 2, their sibling = 3, their child = 4.
The person who told me was making an educated guess, but it fits better with the records I have seen.
No, no no!

First cousin marriages were almost non-existant.  Requiring actual Papal dispensation, which would be noted. I have only ever seen one.

then what are they?

As already indicated by others, 3rd cousins.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens; CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter; COSGRAVE Castlebridge; CULLEN Lady's Island; CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook; DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack; FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown; HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wexford; McGILL Litter; MORRIS Forth Commons; PIERCE Lady's Island; POTTS Bennettstown; REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wexford; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit; SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wexford; SMYTH Gerry/Oulart; WALSH Kilrane/Wexford

Offline oldohiohome

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
    • View Profile
Re: Consanguinity mentioned in marriage record
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 22 June 19 23:42 BST (UK) »
then maybe the priest couldn't count, because the bride's father and the groom's mother had the same surname, married in 1869, in a rural area.

I've also seen a 1st cousin Catholic marriage in America. the couple were married in a different legal jurisdiction because their home area legally forbade 1st cousin marriage. But they were married by a priest, with a note in the record from a priest back home. I doubt they got a papal dispensation since they were as poor as dirt.
Cambridgeshire: Billups, Cropley; Derbyshire: Jenkinson, Gratton; Co Down: O'Rourke, Rodgers, Cunningham

Online Wexflyer

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
  • Not Crown Copyright
    • View Profile
Re: Consanguinity mentioned in marriage record
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 22 June 19 23:47 BST (UK) »
then maybe the priest couldn't count, because the bride's father and the groom's mother had the same surname, married in 1869, in a rural area.

I've also seen a 1st cousin Catholic marriage in America. the couple were married in a different legal jurisdiction because their home area legally forbade 1st cousin marriage. But they were married by a priest, with a note in the record from a priest back home. I doubt they got a papal dispensation since they were as poor as dirt.

The marriage in question is in 1836, so just how the bride and grooms parents married in 1869 escapes me.

Authority to dispense could be delegated in remote mission territories. But that was not Ireland.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens; CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter; COSGRAVE Castlebridge; CULLEN Lady's Island; CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook; DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack; FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown; HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wexford; McGILL Litter; MORRIS Forth Commons; PIERCE Lady's Island; POTTS Bennettstown; REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wexford; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit; SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wexford; SMYTH Gerry/Oulart; WALSH Kilrane/Wexford

Offline oldohiohome

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
    • View Profile
Re: Consanguinity mentioned in marriage record
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 22 June 19 23:49 BST (UK) »
I should have said I was referring to a different 1st cousin marriage I came across.
Cambridgeshire: Billups, Cropley; Derbyshire: Jenkinson, Gratton; Co Down: O'Rourke, Rodgers, Cunningham

Offline Billyblue

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,008
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Consanguinity mentioned in marriage record
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 23 June 19 00:39 BST (UK) »
One of the reasons for the consanguinity prohibition, is to guard against unfavourable genes being passed from both parents to any resulting children.

This is practised even in some indigenous tribes, where their custom prohibits 'marrying' anyone in the same tribe.

Dawn M
Denys (France); Rossier/Rousseau (Switzerland); Montgomery (Antrim, IRL & North Sydney NSW);  Finn (Co.Carlow, IRL & NSW); Wilson (Leicestershire & NSW); Blue (Sydney NSW); Fisher & Barrago & Harrington(all Tipperary, IRL)