Author Topic: Consanguinity mentioned in marriage record  (Read 375 times)

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Consanguinity mentioned in marriage record
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 09 February 19 00:42 GMT (UK) »
It just seems strange to me that you'd have to get a dispensation for a 3rd cousin marriage. Third cousins are not very closely related, and it seems like in small communities in rural Ireland in the 1800s everyone would have been third cousins. Then again, I don't know anything about Catholicism nor rural Irish communities in the 1800s, so...

On the other hand, they would not be likely to obtain a dispensation for a 1st cousin marriage unless there was a grave reason for the marriage and without permission from the Vatican, which would have taken a long time and been expensive.
The priest also had to take into account any previous marriages and relationships between the families and set them out in the dispensation application. A parish priest could grant dispensations for more distant degrees of consanguinity; decisions on closer degrees had to be referred upwards and cost more.
I imagine working out all these relationships would have been part of the skill-set of a matchmaker.  :)

Kilmovee is a rural parish in Mayo. Plenty of marriages involving 3rd and 4th degrees. A few 2x3 which I think is first cousin once removed.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0137
Marriages 1824-1848 microfilm 04224/02
Marriages 1854-1880 microfilm 04224/05

1840
page 54;  20th Jan. Thos ? Gordon & Briget Grady  2x3
p.     55; 7th Feb. Ant? Andrew? Grady & Mary Kirins  2x3
p.     55; 17th Feb. Jas Dalton & Mary Forkan  3x3
p.     55; 27th Feb. Pat Duffy & Winy Duffy   3x3
p.     57; 2nd. March  John Glavey? & Honor Kine 2x3
1841
page 60; 22nd. Feb. Michael Duffy & Winy Duffy 2x3
1856
             2nd. Feb. Patrick Duffy & Maria Duffy  2x3 consan. (Written after this was "paid bishop".)
February was most popular month for weddings.
Duffy was a common name. I don't know if the Winy Duffy who married Feb. 1840 was the same woman who married a year later or if the Pat Duffy of 1840 and 1856 were the same man.
None of my Irish ancestors whose marriages were in church registers seem to have married relatives so I have no personal evidence to offer.
I wish the priests who conducted the marriages of my English Catholic ancestors had recorded degrees of consanguinity to give me some clues as to how they were related. I have 2 lines with recurring surnames, including 3 pairs of brides and grooms with same surnames.


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Offline what0101

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Re: Consanguinity mentioned in marriage record
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 09 February 19 01:10 GMT (UK) »
If we're making wishlists, I wish Ireland had adopted the Scottish method of including the maiden name of the mother and marriage date of the parents on birth records. These records are not easy to wrap my head around!

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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Consanguinity mentioned in marriage record
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 09 February 19 01:52 GMT (UK) »
It just seems strange to me that you'd have to get a dispensation for a 3rd cousin marriage.
You don't or rather they didn't. Dispensations are required for 2nd and 3rd degree consanguinity only. 4th degree consanguinity or higher does not require a dispensation.
There are reasons other than consanguinity for a dispensation.
 I thought the reason for dispensation in this case might have been for a marriage in Advent but the wedding was early in November so was a few weeks before start of Advent.  Lent and Advent are periods of penance and regular fasting; marriages are not supposed to be solemnized during those times, unless they are urgent. Hence the traditional popularity of Easter weddings and why there were so many in February, before Lent began. Kilmovee marriage register has a note about forbidden time (in Latin) next to marriages from late November to 1st week of Jan.
Another reason for a dispensation is a relaxation of the requirement for reading banns on 3 Sundays in bride's and groom's parishes. A dispensation from reading or publishing banns 3 times may be relaxed if the wedding has to take place quickly, for instance: if there is a child on the way; if one party, usually the husband, has to leave soon after the wedding. It's similar to a marriage licence issued in England in 18th & 19th centuries

Marriage Dispensation in the Catholic Church explains. It's about Quebec but most of it is relevant elsewhere. "It is very common for those about to emigrate to have a banns dispensation."
 It has a simple table for working out consanguinity.  :)
genprof.net/marriage-dispensations-in-the-catholic-church

I surmise that the dispensation in the 1836 marriage was not connected to the couple being related.
 


Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Consanguinity mentioned in marriage record
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 09 February 19 04:09 GMT (UK) »
If we're making wishlists, I wish Ireland had adopted the Scottish method of including the maiden name of the mother and marriage date of the parents on birth records. These records are not easy to wrap my head around!
Maiden name of mother is in Irish civil birth registers. Registration began 1864. Mother's maiden name is often in Catholic baptism register.
The most detailed record in a marriage register which I've seen was Swords, County Dublin. Both parents of groom and bride were named. Abodes of parents and witnesses were included.