Author Topic: Marriage entries - COMPLETED with thanks!  (Read 399 times)

Online BumbleB

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,785
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage entries
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 06 February 19 20:09 GMT (UK) »
OK - all certificates, with the exception of the parish entry, are copies.  SO should we be referring to them as "duplicates" rather than copies?

My 1876 marriage "certificate" is definitely an "original" paper version.  It hasn't been photocopied, etc.  It has an original one penny stamp affixed to it, and is signed and countersigned.
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Gadget

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 46,527
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage entries
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 06 February 19 20:15 GMT (UK) »


My 1876 marriage "certificate" is definitely an "original" paper version.  It hasn't been photocopied, etc.  It has an original one penny stamp affixed to it, and is signed and countersigned.

Ditto my 1873 one  :)
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Online BumbleB

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,785
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage entries
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 06 February 19 20:24 GMT (UK) »
So, I've not totally lost it, then!
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Online AntonyMMM

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 585
  • Researcher and ex Deputy Registrar
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage entries
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 06 February 19 20:26 GMT (UK) »
BMD certificates are by definition "certificated copies" of information held in an original register.

Certificates should not have original signatures on them, other than that of the person issuing it (usually the registrar), unless they have been produced by photocopying of the original register entry.

However, many clergy are somewhat flexible in their following of the rules, so I've seen quite few examples where the bride/groom and witnesses have been invited to sign the certificates along with the register entries at the time of a marriage ceremony. My own marriage certificate (from 1985) has my original signature on it.

As a registrar I issued hundreds of certificates and NONE of them ever contained any original signature of the parties involved  other than my own.

Online BumbleB

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,785
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage entries
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 06 February 19 20:36 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks Antony.  I was talking about 1876 - so a bit before your time  ;D  ;D
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Online AntonyMMM

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 585
  • Researcher and ex Deputy Registrar
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage entries
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 06 February 19 20:44 GMT (UK) »
I think the confusion comes about because many people have certificates issued at the time of the event (a  birth, marriage or death registration)  in their family records and they call these "original certificates".

But they are all still copies of something else so not really an "original" document in the true sense, but as close as you can get without looking at the register itself, so they are treated as such.

Offline Gadget

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 46,527
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage entries
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 06 February 19 20:45 GMT (UK) »
I'm not sure whether there was a standard colour for these copies but the one I have from 1873 is a blueish grey and quite thick paper.
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Online BumbleB

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,785
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage entries
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 06 February 19 20:48 GMT (UK) »
Fine, thank you Antony.  So, a "paper" copy, issued on the day, of the original entry  :-\
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Offline Tickettyboo

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,195
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage entries
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 06 February 19 22:27 GMT (UK) »
I mainly have certs issued in England & Wales.

If yours is also issued in E &W, then look at the citation at the bottom, this is why we call them certificates - its certified to be a true copy of an entry in a register.

If its been issued by the local registrar (whether at the time of the marriage or at a later date) then the ones I have say
"Certified to be a true copy of an entry in a register in my custody" or words to that effect -in other words  the original register, signed by bride, groom and witnesses at the time of marriage which  is held at the registrars - under lock and key and the general public is not allowed to even peek at them.

If its been issued by the GRO, then the ones I have say
"Certified to be a true copy of an entry in the certified copy of a register of Marriages in the Registration  District of [insert local registration district] "- in other words the local registrar made a copy of the the register and passed that along to the GRO -   and they have issued the cert from the copy that is held at the GRO.

I understand that recently 'some' but by no means all, local registrars have the facility, like the GRO to issue a copy having scanned the entry in the original (signed on the day by the bride, groom, witnesses etc) register and printing it onto an offficial cert.

So its a minefield really, best advice is look at the 'handwriting' if the signatures look to be in the same hand as the info in the main body then its all been written by the same person who issued the cert. If each signature differs in style from both the writing in the main body and the other signatures
then its likely to be 'original' usually if its a parish marriage register entry or a local registrar who has scanned the original register - or a much later marriage than mine where they may have changed the procedure.

Boo