John William DOUGLAS bp 1872 Newcastle no birth reg

[avm228]

Thank you for the kind credit, River Tyne Lass

Unfortunately it looks as though William & Eleanor's daughter Sarah b 1901 (one week old in census) died in Mar qtr 1902 aged 0.

I see that they then went on to have another Sarah (reg Sep qtr 1909), but she would obviously be too young to be of interest.

[River Tyne Lass]

Sorry, avm, I have just noticed your post after posting this one.  Back to the drawing board and will get back soon regarding the asked for post.

I am very grateful still that you once posted about that link .. it has been so helpful to me in finding a number of earlier marriages in the Newcastle area.  It has often saved a lot of time trying to work out which place people may have married at. 

[Flemming]

Hello both, and thanks for digging into it. Yes, avm is right about this Sarah, with the younger child in the 1911 census age 1 and it showing three of William and Eleanor’s children having died.

For interest, the other local options I’ve ruled out are…

Sarah Bryden DOUGLAS br Q2 1900 South Shields; Sarah Bryden DOUGLAS dr Q1 1902 age 2 South Shields.

Sarah DOUGLAS br Q4 1901 NUT; Sarah DOUGLAS dr Q2 1903 age 1 NUT.

There's also a Sarah DOUGLAS br Q3 1901 Darlington. I have her down as marrying William H SELLARS in Q4 1924 Darlington and registering a birth for son John in Q4 1926. I’ve found her info and a photo in the Sellars public tree of a certain major genealogy website so probably the right match.

Also thanks to avm for the marriage locator link. Not seen that before, very helpful.

BW, flemming.

[River Tyne Lass]

Here it is .. 

Microfilm Number 261

St Nicholas
Page 405
Entry 3244
1872 Nov 17th
John William
Parents: William & Sarah
Douglas
Abode: (West?) Gate
Mechanic

[Flemming]

Hello River Tyne Lass, many thanks for that, much appreciated. The occupation is a great help. Probably not a seafarer but could have worked in the shipyards so possible movement between England and Scotland. Also possible residence for the 1871 census. Will keep digging! Thanks again, flemming.

[River Tyne Lass]

You are welcome Flemming.  I did have a look at some possible Newcastle marriages for John with aid of Marriage Locator.  However, the ones I found did not have a Father called William.  There was a record office one which I could not access, of course.

William a mechanic - I wonder if he might possibly have worked on the railways.  Or possibly a mechanic putting fair ground rides up?

Please let us know how you get on.  I wish you all the best with this search.

[Flemming]

Mechanic in a fair ground might fit with the traveller theory for Sarah’s (b 1900/1) background. I also found Louisa Sarah DOUGLASS in Tynemouth in 1871 with one son William Bell DOUGLASS (br Q2 1864 mmm BELL). She’s recorded as wife of a traveller, himself absent. She married George William DOUGLASS Q3 1863 in Tynemouth. I suppose it’s possible they both used their middle names informally. By 1881, Louisa was a widow, just with son William, although I’ve found four other DOUGLASS mmn BELL children born in Tynemouth from 1871 to 1878. I’ve also found three deaths for these. Louisa herself died in 1902 so can’t get number of children from the 1911 census.

I’ve found a bp for William Bell DOUGLASS in Newcastle Christ Church but not for any of the others. The three I found who died were weeks/months old, so perhaps no time for a bp.

There does seem to be a long gap between William Bell being born in 1864 and a daughter in 1871 not to have had any other children in between and, if father George was a traveller, perhaps other children were born outside of Newcastle. It could have been the same with John who then died before 1881.

All a bit speculative. I’ve got another William and Sarah DOUGLASS in Tweedmouth in 1871. They’re next. 

Post script: just found the marriage licence for George DOUGLASS and Louisa BELL; he was a commercial traveller 

[River Tyne Lass]

There was a William Douglas who married a Sarah Simpson in 1887 at C5 Church code St Alban, Earsdon.  I think this looks like this marriage may have taken place well after some of their children were born.  In 1891 they have a son John who appears to be younger than the one I found baptism for yesterday.  But might there have been an earlier John who may have died?  In 1891, they were living in Backworth.  Their son John is down as having been born in Byker - so the family were in the Newcastle area at one point.  William seems to be a miner - but I wonder if he might have been a mechanic at the mine or might he have switched professions to fit what work may have been available in the area?

[Flemming]

I wonder if William was a widower ** when he married Sarah. I’ve found John Ellerington DOUGLASS br Q2 1878 and Robert DOUGLASS br Q2 1882 both Tynemouth with mmn ELLERINGTON. Also Alice Jane DOUGLAS br Q4 1888 Tynemouth with mmn SIMPSON. These would fit the 1891 census.

There’s a marriage for William DOUGLASS to Margaret ELLERINGTON Q1 1873 NUT but no obvious death for her, other than in Q2 1881 in Morpeth, age 45.

I’ve found a likely family group in 1881 but William is recorded as 45, whereas the William in 1891 is recorded as 35. Possible mistranscription - could it be 55? And could wife Margaret then have died weeks after the 1881 census?

William DOUGLAS seems to be Northumberland's version of John SMITH. 

** Found a marriage entry which says he was widowed.