Author Topic: 63rd of Foot / Royal Irish  (Read 629 times)

Offline josey

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Re: 63rd of Foot / Royal Irish
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 13 February 19 10:55 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for this...how do I use the data record?  is it at Kew?
You can order this certificate from https://www.gro.gov.uk using the reference but clicking on 'Overseas Event' first. I don't think you ncan get the £6 .pdf for this.

would it possible for the birth date to be so far out?  the 1871 census says abt 1838

He was 'underage' on enlistment in October 1851 & continued so until 16 April 1855 [so 18 in April 1855 - implying birth 16 April 1837]; this 4 years service is not counted in his 20 yrs 291 days. He may have inflated his age....he then had to maintain whatever age he said he was throughout his army career & probably came to believe it himself. Army record says he is 39 yrs 3/12 in 1875. Ellen says she is married in 1881, not widowed.

do you think he has died at this point as he is not on census?
On his army record hit says he is being discharged to an 'institution' in Prestwich, Manchester. So he may be listed under initials in subsequent censuses.

I can't see any of the England births having been registered at the GRO from [freebmd] but Albert & John are also on the Army returns obtainable via GRO as Walter's. Only 1 of these might be necessary to give Ellen's maiden anme. None if this is confirming Thomas' parentage as per your original query but all is part of family history!! Alfred's baptism [on findmypast India baptisms] doesn't state it either.
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

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Offline Sue Lappin

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Re: 63rd of Foot / Royal Irish
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 13 February 19 21:10 GMT (UK) »
Hi Josie

How do you know he was underage at enlistment?  is this based on the fact that there are no records for him for 1838?

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Offline josey

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Re: 63rd of Foot / Royal Irish
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 13 February 19 22:50 GMT (UK) »
No, it is written on his army record.
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline Sue Lappin

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Re: 63rd of Foot / Royal Irish
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 14 February 19 10:51 GMT (UK) »
wowser!!

I am loving how helpful you all are!!

I have to admit I love researching and this has become my secret guilty pleasure!

Are there any sites that you all 'subscribe' to and are there any to avoid?!?!

Offline josey

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Re: 63rd of Foot / Royal Irish
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 14 February 19 11:04 GMT (UK) »
Just to say that whatever sites you subscribe to [me - ancestry world, findmypast & occasionally a month to rootsireland.ie] it pays to read EVERY word of a record - in this case you have probably seen the army record [from some of the information you gave us at the outset] but some facts hide in plain sight.

It's the fact that rootschatters overall subscribe to a variety of pay sites and have a wealth of experience with all sorts of resources from their own researches or life [plus the fact that we are a helpful and friendly bunch ready to give and receive help] that makes rootschat such a wonderful forum.

ADDED: Personally I favour the 1839 baptism, with Thomas being 12 but pretending he was 14 in 1851 rather than 17 & pretending he was 14 as he would have been from the 1834. Still not proven though.....
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline josey

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Re: 63rd of Foot / Royal Irish
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 14 February 19 12:02 GMT (UK) »
Potential siblings?, spellings Lappin, Lappen, Lappan.
Children of Owen; these are from 1845 - 1850 [twins in 1848], mother Mary Lafferty so I suggest Alice died 1839 -  1844, can't find death on rootsireland.ie or remarriage of Owen.
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline Gibel

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Re: 63rd of Foot / Royal Irish
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 14 February 19 17:20 GMT (UK) »
Ellen as a widow is with sons John and Alfred in Salford in 1891. I think she dies in 1910.

Offline Gibel

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Re: 63rd of Foot / Royal Irish
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 14 February 19 17:44 GMT (UK) »
Ellenís (as Helena) burial is on www.lan-opc.org.uk there are a lot of other burials of  the Lappin Family recorded on the site.

Offline josey

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Re: 63rd of Foot / Royal Irish
« Reply #26 on: Friday 15 February 19 16:01 GMT (UK) »
We have been trying to find the maiden name of Thomas' wife Ellen, which MAY help find the marriage record which in turn is probably the best way of confirming Thomas' father's name.

Ellen was born in Nova Scotia ca 1844/5, most likely living in or near Halifax; the army being stationed at The Citadel. They probably married before Thomas moved to western Canada where Walter was born in 1863. So we are probably looking for a marriage between about 1860 & 1862.

My great grandfather was in the 87th, stationed at The Citadel when he met my great grandmother who was born not far from Halifax at Windsor Junction. They too were Roman Catholics and married in 1876. This marriage record is on https://www.novascotiagenealogy.com/ giving their fathers' names & not their mothers' although many records do]. I suspect they married in St Mary's Basilica.

I mention this because there are some RC church records held by familysearch
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nes/  which may be worth accessing somehow. There is also
https://archives.novascotia.ca/genealogy. http://www.cangenealogy.com/ns.html, https://hamiltondiocese.com/chancellor/library/request-sacramental.php; Walter's baptism would be helpful. I feel it is worth finding any RC records for the time scales in order to find the marriage.
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON