Thomas King b. c. 1859, Portsea

[Briannicus]

Dear All,
I wonder if anyone has information on the below Thomas KING. He is not, I believe, the well documented Thomas King, son of Thomas Reuben King, as they both appear separately in the 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses. I have included the other information in case it sparks a memory. As you will see there are futher puzzles I should like to solve.
Thank you for anything.
Brian

Thomas KING 2 c.y.b. 1859, Portsmouth, is also found in the 1891 Census, but he is living in Oxford Buildings, working as a labourer, with his ‘wife’, Elizabeth NOTTING), c.y.b. 1862, Weymouth, Dorset, and their children  -
(1)   Jane c.y.b. 1879.
(2)   Florence c.y.b. 1890
They then move to Providence Place in 1901 when Thomas and Elizabeth are 43 and 44, and are at Jarvis Pl in 1911 when their ages seems to have suddenly increased by 10 years to 65 and 64

They, or some mix had -
(1)   Jane NEWTON / KING / NOTTING c.y.b. 1879 I cannot find her birth under King, Newton or Notting.
(2)   Florence (03/04 Apr1890 – 07 May 1975). Her mother’s maiden name was NOTTING on Civil Register which agrees with her birth certificate.  Florence then had, with an unknown father -
a)   Lily Florence / Gloria b. (18 Sep 1906 – Jan 1991)
             She then married George / Harry Frank ROGERS under the name Florence     
             NEWTON in Mar qtr. 1908 Portsmouth District, Vol 2B p.711
(3)   William b. 03 Jul 1892, bapt 27 Jul 1892, Portsea, son of Thomas and   
      Elizabeth. Died 1975, Portsmouth
Thomas, Elizabeth and family were living in Providence Place, Portsmouth (Charles Dickens Ward) in 1901 Census.

[MaureeninNY]

Slow start...but I imagine this is Jane's birth:

GRO Births:
NOTTING, JANE  ELIZABETH   no mmn
1879  S Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 425 

Elizabeth marries William Joseph NEWTON Oct 21,1879. He's a stoker age 27 residence H M S St Vincent.
I'm not seeing another marriage for her!
Maureen

[Briannicus]

Thank you, Maureen. I don't understand how, after 20 years of compulsory GRO registration we can't find Thomas's birth or census records for '61, '71' '81. Or are we looking in the wrong place or for the wrong name or...
Brian

[ciderdrinker]

Hello
1871 census 23 Green Row Portsea
Thomas R King 40 Rigger H MDY  Portsea
Mary A 38
Thomas 13 Scholar
Mary A 11    "
William H 9 "

1861 census 25 Green Row
Thomas King  30 rigger dockyard  Landport
Mary A 28 Milton
Thomas 3 Landport
Mary A 1 Landport

Christening at St Mary Portsea
Thomas birth 14 Jan 1858 bapt 2 10 1859 s of Thomas Reuban and Mary King.

In 1881 he was perhaps on HMS Vincent
Thomas H King 24 single  able seaman Hayling Island

Thomas Reuban King married Mary Ann Spencer at St Mary's 10.4.1857

Son Thomas King is registered Birth Mar 1858 Portsea 2b 411 mother's maiden name Spencer.

That helps with  one problem.

ps mom and dad 1881 29 Belgrave st Landport
Thomas R King 51 rigger at RN Dockyard Landport
Mary Ann 48 Milton
Mary Ann 21 staymaker Landport
William H 19 railway carman  Landport

Ciderdrinker

[Briannicus]

I don't want to appear ungrateful as none of us on this site has to do the things we do, but I actually have almost all of the above - I attach my research below - but have ruled them out, as I said in my starter message, due theim being well documented from the beginning.

The Thomas King I am researching was born at a similar date and suddenly pops up from 1891 in a confusing picture of illegitimacy, false marriage claims and erroneous record keeping, is not, I believe the Thomas son of Thomas Reuben as there are two Thomas Kings from 1891 on.

 Thomas Reuben KING rigger in dockyard in 1861 (bapt. 16 May 1830, Portsea St Mary, Hampshire - Mar qtr. 1907, aged 77, Portsmouth), son of Thomas KING, railway porter, formerly a labourer of Halfway House, and Ann UNKNOWN. Married 10.4.1857 in St Marys Parish, Portsea to Mary Ann SPENCER (1833 – 1913) Milton (Portsea), Hampshire, daughter of William SPENCER, railway porter.  Wits: Reuben BEATES, Eliza SIMS
Children –
(1) Thomas b. 14 Jan 1858,bapt 02 Oct 1859, son of Thomas Reuben and Mary Ann
(2) Mary Ann, (c.y.b. 1860 - ?), corset maker m. John Frank TRILL (1859 – Jun qtr.
      1902), leading stoker, son of James TRILL, on 28 Sep 1882, Portsea and had –
    a) Victoria Maud TRILL (Sep qtr. 1887, Portsea – 1951)
    b) Ernest John TRILL(Sep qtr. 1888 – Jun qtr. 1891)
    c) Ernest John TRILL (Mar qtr. 1890 – 1916, Flanders). Without buying the certificates we have     
       no way of knowing if they are brothers. The birth datesconfuse the issue.
     d) Leonard Reuben TRILL 28 Sep 1894
    e) Harry TRILL (Dec qtr. 1896 – 1966)
(3) William Henry 1862. Brewer’s Drayman in 1891, living with parents, his sister and her two children. J F TRILL is not with them

Thank you very much for all your efforts nonetheless.
Brian

[ciderdrinker]

Yes
Your right I misread your post .
I'm sorry for all that.
That's what happens when I'm in the Library and someone next to me is doing a running commentary on their job search.
I'm sorry I'll have another go

Ciderdrinker

[ciderdrinker]

Just a though have you looked at Thomas King born 1846/7 son of Thomas King and Caroline
In the army 1865-1887  sister Mrs Maria Davies/Davis

It would explain why he's not on the censuses
Ciderdrinker

[MaureeninNY]

I must be really blind because I don't see 2 Thomas KINGs born Portsea/Portsmouth ~1858 on the 1891,1901 and 1911 census!

Maureen

[Briannicus]

Firstly, I don't know where anyone on here looks up census information but think I was losing the plot (not for the first time Haha)

I have just looked looked up Thomas King born 1858 + - 2 yrs, Portsea, hampshire on Findmypast and the results have come up just as I remembered. There are two (2) Thomas Kings. The one I can't locate is a labourer b. 1859, Portsea and living in Oxford Buildings, with wife Elizabeth born Dorset (this important for identifying them) and children Florence and Jane.

The other Thomas is, I'm fairly sure, Thomas who is the son of Thomas Reuben who is b. 1858, a fireman on HMS Discovery with a wife, also Elizabeth, born Kent (this important for identifying them), and three girls: Edith, Rose W and Ethel. They are in Caversham Rd.