Author Topic: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)  (Read 1186 times)

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)
« Reply #81 on: Monday 18 February 19 21:42 GMT (UK) »
With the help of the filing for divorce in 1923 -
You can discount Thomas S Coulson 47 June qtr 1916 Sunderland vol 10a pg 805 on one of the other threads - leaves Thomas S Coulson 67 Dec qtr 1932 South Shields vol 10a pg 822 a possibility  ???

Have you got the birth certificate for Thomas Smith Coulson Snr ?  An exact date of birth might help locate him.  ???

Sandra

Thomas Smith Coulson -  16 Jul 1866 - christening date - 10 Oct 1866
St. Hildas, South Shields, Durham.     Father - Thomas Coulson and Mother's Name Elizabeth Coulson.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJ43-DDQ

Sandra
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada

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Offline dtcoulson

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Re: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)
« Reply #82 on: Monday 18 February 19 22:19 GMT (UK) »
Slowly, guys... don't get too carried away with the Thomas Smith Coulsons of South Shields. It'll drive you mad.

There are fourteen Thomas Smith Coulsons in or from South Shields, twelve of them related descendants of a Joseph Coulson born in 1811. See my Geni tree where I abbreviate them all as TSC (Sandra has found it).

The man you are calling Thomas Snr is Thomas Smith Coulson born South Shields in July 16 1866. He is the son of TSC born 1838. Don't confuse him with the other fellows by that name born 1864, 1867, 1868, 1871 and 1876.


Thomas Snr - TSC(1866) - was a painter and lived all over the place in the UK. His American granddaughter is pretty confident that he never went to the US but this of course is not conclusive. I have traced him in the electoral rolls living in Leicestershire in the early 1920s. He died in Edmonton in 1937.


The name Sanderson enters the family via Elizabeth Sanderson who marries TSC(1838) in 1859. She is the mother of TSC(1866) - Thomas Snr in your posts.

TSC(1896) - Thomas Jnr - son of Mary F, was in the Middlesex Regiment in WW1 and served at Cambrai 1917. He was temporarily blinded in both eyes, was discharged in 1918 I think, Recovered sight in one eye.

(pause for breath)

I acknowledge your suggestion that TSC(1896) - who you are calling Thomas Jnr -  could have fabricated his previous visit to the US in 1911 but I see no reason for him to do that.

The divorce notice in Oregon in 1923 looks highly significant. But how meaningful is this if one party is in the UK and the other is in the US? Whose judicial system is invoked? Do both parties have to be in the US for this to proceed?



The way I view this at the moment:

Mary F did separate from her husband but this did not necessarily precede the 1911 census.
In 1911 her husband in LLandillo regards himself as still married. Perhaps she was just away from the house that day? I am speculating. I have tried once again to find her in the 1911 and she still does not appear anywhere.

Anyway, if I allow that she did not split with her husband until after the census, she is then able to accompany her son to Portland in 1911. It would be sensible to assume that her daughter went along at the same time, yet we have evidence of her going through an adult christening in Cardiff in 1912, so that is a strange and awkward twist.

There is still the possibility that the whole family went over in 1911, that the father and children did not like it there and returned to the UK. All this would have happened well before the birth of the granddaughter in 1931 (or close) in which case she might never have known of their visit.


* I am interested in your discovery of divorces involving men of that name.
That detail is new to me and I would like to investigate it further.



Hope this clarifies things

-DC

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Offline Milliepede

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Re: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)
« Reply #83 on: Monday 18 February 19 22:28 GMT (UK) »
What's the adult baptism in 1912? 

Doesn't she already have a baptism on 4 Apr 1894
Elizabeth Sanderson Coulson

- father Thomas mother Mariae Doyle Coulson
Please don't tell me that's someone else!
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

Offline RJ137

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Re: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)
« Reply #84 on: Monday 18 February 19 22:41 GMT (UK) »

The divorce notice in Oregon in 1923 looks highly significant. But how meaningful is this if one party is in the UK and the other is in the US? Whose judicial system is invoked? Do both parties have to be in the US for this to proceed?


* I am interested in your discovery of divorces involving men of that name.
That detail is new to me and I would like to investigate it further.


Oregonian
Portland, Oregon
March 8, 1923

Offline dtcoulson

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Re: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)
« Reply #85 on: Tuesday 19 February 19 00:29 GMT (UK) »
Fear not, Millie,

Elizabeth's baptism in 1912 identifies her parents correctly, and her family was indeed in this area at about this time. Elizabeth appears as a servant or a visitor (don't recall which) in Cardiff in 1911, and her brother and father are in Llandillo in 1911, presumably on a short term work project. Only her mother is absent.

The Latinised spellings would imply a faith conversion to RC ? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Elizabeth would have been 18/19 years old in 1912.

Three years later she is in the US getting married, unless THAT is a coincidence of names.

-DC

Offline dtcoulson

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Re: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)
« Reply #86 on: Wednesday 20 February 19 03:42 GMT (UK) »


*** quote ***
Was there any military records for Thomas Smith Coulson Snr or Jnr ?

There was a junior one in the US if I recall, registration papers or something.
*** end ***




Millie, can I see this data you are referring to?
If the name "Smith" is included, this is highly significant.

There is a draft registration form for Thomas jnr in 1940 or thereabouts.
Hopefully you are talking about something different.

-DC


Offline dtcoulson

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Re: Dr Russell Flint Maddren and wife Elizabeth Sanderson (what is her maiden name?)
« Reply #87 on: Wednesday 20 February 19 05:51 GMT (UK) »
While organising all the new data into a single timeline I noticed that Elizabeth and Russell married just 12 days before Russell filled out a draft registration form in which he claims exemption due to an unspecified disability. (The disability is not blindness or loss of limb and it did not stop him from becoming a surgeon at almost the exact same time). He also describes his wife Elizabeth as 'solely dependent' on him. They were married before a JP so I assume this was a reg office wedding.

I thought this was an interesting convergence of dates but am not sure what importance it may have.

I also notice that all the weddings for this Coulson family take place in County Clarke, Vancouver, Washington even though everyone lives in Portland. Is there a reason for this? Surely Portland is a city big enough to have its own marriage registrar.

On the 1917 marriage cert Elizabeth falsely gives her birth place as Michigan
(we can be sure of this now). Why would she do this?

The 1917 marriage cert also falsely identifies her mother as Mary Allen.
The spelling is very clear. Why would she do this?

Her death cert from China Feb 1924 describes her as the wife of a US citizen rather than a citizen herself; or perhaps that she is an American citizen as a consequence of her marriage. Either way, why would she not have been a US citizen since her first marriage in 1915? 

-DC