Author Topic: Recycling names  (Read 175 times)

Offline Puffin81

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Recycling names
« on: Saturday 16 February 19 21:11 GMT (UK) »
Iíve noticed in a lot of my Irish traveler familyís that names are recycled, not just naming after a parent but also, if a child dies another is given the same name, a practice that seems strange today. (And confusing, if I ever have children Iíll consider future geniologists  ;D)

Is this something that happened in traveler familyís?  If so was there a reason?

Iíve noticed A lot of janes, johns, James, Margaret and Mary Mary Annís too.  I did wonder if the recycled names started off as mary-Ann, Mary-Jane in some cases but then got shortened. 

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Offline goldie61

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Re: Recycling names
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 16 February 19 21:43 GMT (UK) »
Iíve noticed in a lot of my Irish traveler familyís that names are recycled, not just naming after a parent but also, if a child dies another is given the same name, a practice that seems strange today.

There have been posts on here before about this.
It was pretty common in the past to 're-use' a name after a child had died for another child.
It was a way of ensuring that that name was carried on. Often it was the name of the father, or grandfather, mother or grandmother, favourite uncle or aunt etc.
It was not necessarily an Irish thing, or even a travellers' thing,
I have families from Scotland and different parts of England who did exactly that.
One family buried 3 daughters all called Katherine - that had been the name of the mother's mother. How sad.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

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Offline Puffin81

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Re: Recycling names
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 16 February 19 22:43 GMT (UK) »
Iíve noticed in a lot of my Irish traveler familyís that names are recycled, not just naming after a parent but also, if a child dies another is given the same name, a practice that seems strange today.

There have been posts on here before about this.
It was pretty common in the past to 're-use' a name after a child had died for another child.
It was a way of ensuring that that name was carried on. Often it was the name of the father, or grandfather, mother or grandmother, favourite uncle or aunt etc.
It was not necessarily an Irish thing, or even a travellers' thing,
I have families from Scotland and different parts of England who did exactly that.
One family buried 3 daughters all called Katherine - that had been the name of the mother's mother. How sad.

Very sad, I think Iíve mentioned before how all Iíve found was ancestors that had a nice life, bit rich, but happy, but all Iíve found is desperately poor people that rubbish things happened too.  Then I found one couple who looked to live a nice life, they didnít have much but they looked to have everything going ok for them.  THEN I found articles about him being a drunk and an abuser and going to prison for it, then he turned up in the workhouse living separately to his wife.

Iíve noticed the name thing more with my traveler ancestors, perhaps itís just that a lot of my branches hit traveller at certain time periods

Iíve definitely noticed a lot of marriages with the same surnames so they definitely stuck together.

Offline Rena

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Re: Recycling names
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 16 February 19 23:27 GMT (UK) »
Iíve noticed in a lot of my Irish traveler familyís that names are recycled, not just naming after a parent but also, if a child dies another is given the same name, a practice that seems strange today.

Is this something that happened in traveler familyís?  If so was there a reason?

Iíve noticed A lot of janes, johns, James, Margaret and Mary Mary Annís too.  I did wonder if the recycled names started off as mary-Ann, Mary-Jane in some cases but then got shortened.

This happened on the European mainland aswell.  It was important to earlier generations that ancestors names were honoured and carried on. Thus, as the first born baby boy would be named after its paternal grandfather, you will realise the significance of any younger baby carrying the name.  Where there are two given names I find that families vary on the one they choose to use every day,  for instance "Mary Ann" might be "Annie".  When Mary Ann is a child on a census you'll probably see "Mary"" then when married in some instances if you can't find a maried Mary - look for Ann/Annie.

I have one set of Welsh parents that named their first daughter Mary.  Mary died and her replacement was Mary Ann, poor little Mary Ann died and the replacement was named Maria Mary Ann.

As for the given names that often appear in your ancestors, you'll notice they are all mostly mentioned in the bible and if you surf you'll find they have a meaning.  As for William, I'm assuming (rightly or wrongly) that it was introduced into a family when William the Conqueror arrived on these shores 1066.

In case you can't locate the usual naming pattern here it is:-

The traditional patterns used when naming boys were as follows:

    The first son would be named after the father's father (variation is after the mother's father especially if he's rich)
    The second after the mother's father (variation is the father's father)
    The third son would be named after the father
    The fourth son would be named after the father's oldest brother (variation is after the father's paternal grandfather)
    The fifth son would be named after the mother's oldest brother (variation is after the mother's paternal grandfather)

and for girls:

    First daughter named after the mother's mother (variation is after the father's mother)
    Second daughter named after the father's mother
    Third daughter named after the mother
    Fourth daughter named after the mother's oldest sister (variation is after the mother's maternal grandmother)
    Fifth daughter named after the father's oldest sister (variation is after the father's maternal grandmother)
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy
MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell
Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie
Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell
Perthshire: Brown Ferguson
Wales: McCarthy, Thomas
England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells
Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline Puffin81

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Re: Recycling names
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 16 February 19 23:57 GMT (UK) »
Iíve noticed in a lot of my Irish traveler familyís that names are recycled, not just naming after a parent but also, if a child dies another is given the same name, a practice that seems strange today.

Is this something that happened in traveler familyís?  If so was there a reason?

Iíve noticed A lot of janes, johns, James, Margaret and Mary Mary Annís too.  I did wonder if the recycled names started off as mary-Ann, Mary-Jane in some cases but then got shortened.

This happened on the European mainland aswell.  It was important to earlier generations that ancestors names were honoured and carried on. Thus, as the first born baby boy would be named after its paternal grandfather, you will realise the significance of any younger baby carrying the name.  Where there are two given names I find that families vary on the one they choose to use every day,  for instance "Mary Ann" might be "Annie".  When Mary Ann is a child on a census you'll probably see "Mary"" then when married in some instances if you can't find a maried Mary - look for Ann/Annie.

I have one set of Welsh parents that named their first daughter Mary.  Mary died and her replacement was Mary Ann, poor little Mary Ann died and the replacement was named Maria Mary Ann.

As for the given names that often appear in your ancestors, you'll notice they are all mostly mentioned in the bible and if you surf you'll find they have a meaning.  As for William, I'm assuming (rightly or wrongly) that it was introduced into a family when William the Conqueror arrived on these shores 1066.

In case you can't locate the usual naming pattern here it is:-

The traditional patterns used when naming boys were as follows:

    The first son would be named after the father's father (variation is after the mother's father especially if he's rich)
    The second after the mother's father (variation is the father's father)
    The third son would be named after the father
    The fourth son would be named after the father's oldest brother (variation is after the father's paternal grandfather)
    The fifth son would be named after the mother's oldest brother (variation is after the mother's paternal grandfather)

and for girls:

    First daughter named after the mother's mother (variation is after the father's mother)
    Second daughter named after the father's mother
    Third daughter named after the mother
    Fourth daughter named after the mother's oldest sister (variation is after the mother's maternal grandmother)
    Fifth daughter named after the father's oldest sister (variation is after the father's maternal grandmother)

Thank you so much thatís really useful and interesting