Author Topic: Henry John Sweetland, Somerset light infantry  (Read 1190 times)

Offline emjsw

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Henry John Sweetland, Somerset light infantry
« on: Sunday 17 February 19 15:47 GMT (UK) »
Hello,

I was wondering if anyone with any knowledge of the Somerset Light Infantry might be able to help me please as I have looked through my Gt grandfather's service record and don't really understand it (pls see ancestry details below).

He seems to have joined the 5th battalion, was at some point with the 85th provisional battalion, then with the 3rd battalion and finally served with the military foot police. He was a pte, then a lance Corp then demoted back to pte.

I can see alot about his home service but none about his service abroad.

I know he lied about his age and joined up when he was 14.
The stories that we know I can't find any facts for and this is where I hope someone with military knowledge might be able to help please?

Story 1 "I was caught behind enemy lines for a very long time, we were starving and I had to kill my horse to keep us alive and that broke me".

Story 2 "left for dead in no man's land, had frost bite, had been shot and gassed. Someone found him and thought he was dead. He was wrapped in cotton wool and put in an open wooden box and was sent back to UK (Ashurst war hospital Oxford). He had served in the Somme. He might have been posted to the 1st battalion at this point which may have been Aug 1916 but I am not sure and don't understand the abbreviations.

Is there any way of finding out where he was and what battles he served in France, and where he might have got injured please?

Best wishes
Emma
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Palmer (Nottingham)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)

Online ShaunJ

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,124
    • View Profile
Re: Henry John Sweetland, Somerset light infantry
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 17 February 19 16:29 GMT (UK) »
I can see that he was in France for just 103 days from 4 August 1916 to 14 November 1916 and was ultimately discharged in November 1918 suffering from neurasthenia and rheumatism.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline emjsw

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Henry John Sweetland, Somerset light infantry
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 17 February 19 18:41 GMT (UK) »
I can see that he was in France for just 103 days from 4 August 1916 to 14 November 1916 and was ultimately discharged in November 1918 suffering from neurasthenia and rheumatism.

Thank you very much for getting back to me. He wasn't in France for very long! I was told his rheumatism was down to tench foot but perhaps he wasn't there for long enough for that to happen. I am trying to access the Ashurst War hospital records to find out why he was there.
I appreciate your help.

Best wishes Emma
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Palmer (Nottingham)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)

Offline MaxD

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 8,056
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Henry John Sweetland, Somerset light infantry
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 17 February 19 20:24 GMT (UK) »
His record is at first sight not entirely clear as to which unit he was serving with during those 3 months he was in France.  His medal roll entry and medal card say West Somerset Yeomanry.  However, the only West Som Yeo unit that went overseas was 1/1st who went to Gallipoli and later Egypt at the time he was overseas.

The date 13 August 1916 which is related on his record to a transfer to the SLI adds up with the arrival with 1st Battalion SLI in France on 13 August 1916 of a draft including 30 men of the West Somerset Yeomanry (war diary).  Arrival in France on 4 August and arrival some 9 days later at his battalion would be typical.

Always difficult to comment on a family story but when with the SLI he was highly unlikely to have ridden a horse.  1st Battalion SLI did have a torrid time of it on the first days of the Somme but he didn't arrive until a month later but the battalion were heavily engaged towards the end of his time with them in a later phase of the Battle of the Somme.

On 16 September when he was awarded  7 days Field Punishment No 2 (imprisoned, remained shackled or in handcuffs but not fixed to an object) the battalion were out of the line resting and having baths.

Difficult to square the last part of his overseas service which ended in mid November as the battalion had been out of the line since Oct 25th so what the circumstances were that brought him home, his record does not divulge.

The war diary that covers the period he was with them can be downloaded from the National Archives for £3.50 at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14017004 although more readable is this little history  https://archive.org/details/somersettinfantry00majeuoft/page/n6 (click the pages to turn them) p[ages 13-20 cover the period.

MaxD

PS note that there is a conduct sheet mixed in his record with offences in 1915 which isn't his.
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia


Offline emjsw

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Henry John Sweetland, Somerset light infantry
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 17 February 19 21:38 GMT (UK) »
His record is at first sight not entirely clear as to which unit he was serving with during those 3 months he was in France.  His medal roll entry and medal card say West Somerset Yeomanry.  However, the only West Som Yeo unit that went overseas was 1/1st who went to Gallipoli and later Egypt at the time he was overseas.

The date 13 August 1916 which is related on his record to a transfer to the SLI adds up with the arrival with 1st Battalion SLI in France on 13 August 1916 of a draft including 30 men of the West Somerset Yeomanry (war diary).  Arrival in France on 4 August and arrival some 9 days later at his battalion would be typical.

Always difficult to comment on a family story but when with the SLI he was highly unlikely to have ridden a horse.  1st Battalion SLI did have a torrid time of it on the first days of the Somme but he didn't arrive until a month later but the battalion were heavily engaged towards the end of his time with them in a later phase of the Battle of the Somme.

On 16 September when he was awarded  7 days Field Punishment No 2 (imprisoned, remained shackled or in handcuffs but not fixed to an object) the battalion were out of the line resting and having baths.

Difficult to square the last part of his overseas service which ended in mid November as the battalion had been out of the line since Oct 25th so what the circumstances were that brought him home, his record does not divulge.

The war diary that covers the period he was with them can be downloaded from the National Archives for £3.50 at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14017004 although more readable is this little history  https://archive.org/details/somersettinfantry00majeuoft/page/n6 (click the pages to turn them) p[ages 13-20 cover the period.

MaxD

PS note that there is a conduct sheet mixed in his record with offences in 1915 which isn't his.

Thank you very much for all this information, to have this kind of knowledge when you research family history really brings it to life.
Makes you wonder about family stories though as these 2 were told by more than one person but they just don't fit with the facts which I am very grateful for as I want to make sure my tree only contains provable facts.
I really appreciate all that you have provided.
Many thanks.
Emma
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Palmer (Nottingham)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)

Offline emjsw

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Henry John Sweetland, Somerset light infantry
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 17 February 19 22:36 GMT (UK) »
I have just found this information but wondered if it perhaps relates to a different man if my relative left in Nov 1916. I would be really grateful for your thoughts.

H Sweetland aged 24. Admission 5293. Lance Corp 11987. Dysentery. Transfer to sick convoy 10/1/1917. 3 days. Number 38 casualty clearing station, number 3 ambulance train. Church of England. Somerset Light Infantry, 1st Battalion, 4th Div.

Could be have been sent back and it wasn't recorded?
I know he was a lance corporal and then got demoted.

Best wishes Emma
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Palmer (Nottingham)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)

Offline emjsw

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Henry John Sweetland, Somerset light infantry
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 17 February 19 23:17 GMT (UK) »
I also found this but it might not be him :
1916 • France
First Name: H J Surname: Sweetland Incident Date: 03/03/1916 Information: Listed as “Wounded” on the Casualty List issued by the War Office from 3rd March 1916. Further Information: This man was entitled to wear a “Wound Stripe” as authorised under Arm

Again this falls outside of his service listed and could be another man
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Palmer (Nottingham)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)

Offline MaxD

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 8,056
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Henry John Sweetland, Somerset light infantry
« Reply #7 on: Monday 18 February 19 09:36 GMT (UK) »
The first man is 11987 Kirwen Barnes Sweetland of the SLI.  He was killed in action on 2 November 1918.  Although the initial seems wrong, (could be a K) his number is clear.

The second one has no number.  There are records of some other H J Sweetlands but without a number or regiment or first names  - difficult to know.  However, although Henry John's record is a bit of a mess, the dates of arrival in France and to his battalion are clear enough which would  also suggest the second record isn't him. 


MaxD
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline emjsw

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Henry John Sweetland, Somerset light infantry
« Reply #8 on: Monday 18 February 19 10:32 GMT (UK) »
The first man is 11987 Kirwen Barnes Sweetland of the SLI.  He was killed in action on 2 November 1918.  Although the initial seems wrong, (could be a K) his number is clear.

The second one has no number.  There are records of some other H J Sweetlands but without a number or regiment or first names  - difficult to know.  However, although Henry John's record is a bit of a mess, the dates of arrival in France and to his battalion are clear enough which would  also suggest the second record isn't him. 


MaxD

Thank you very much for clearing that up, I have tidied my time line up on ancestry and removed these entries. I downloaded the war diary that you sent the link for in the National Archives, thank you for that. It is fascinating. I notice that 2 officers and 66 men are taken to hospital with exhaustion and trench foot so assume one was my g.grandfather which would explain his returning with cotton wool and bandages (but not the story about being shot/gased). Mind you he could have been one of the men wounded on the Oct days leading up to 22nd.
I will try and up load his discharge from the Ashurst War Hospital (28 Nov 2018).
Thanks so much for helping us clear this up. My Dad is fascinated too.

Best wishes,
Emma
Sweetland (Chard/Yarcoombe/Honiton)
Garret/Stacey (Somerset)
Boultern/Boulton (Reading)
Crowther (Wolverhampton/Wednesbury/Birmingham)
Myres (Wolverhampton)
Palmer (Nottingham)
Cosby (Leighton Buzzard/Woodstock/Kidlington)
Hope (Oxford/Kidlington/Woodstock)
Williams (Yorkshire/Conisborough)
Draper (Bow Brickhill)
Draper Smith (Bow Brickhill/Woburn Sands)
Smith (Woburn Sands)