Author Topic: Could I have your opinion please?  (Read 900 times)

Offline Lynne Tann-Watson

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Could I have your opinion please?
« on: Monday 18 February 19 15:56 GMT (UK) »
My 3xgt grandfather seemed to have had ten children. On the 1841 census, one child was called Nancy aged 15. I can find no other trace of her anywhere, though I have the baptisms of all the others. I found the baptism in 1841, of an Ann but realised that the mother would have been 57 in 1841. Then I discovered that another child, baptised in 1841, was actually born in 1831. I think it's fairly clear that Ann was born much earlier than 1841. In their father's will, he lists the surviving children in order, and in the position where Nancy should be, we find Ann. I know Nancy was sometimes used as a pet name for Ann. Do you think I'm justified in putting Ann and Nancy as the same person in my family tree?

Love Lynne

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Offline Indiana.59

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Re: Could I have your opinion please?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 18 February 19 16:33 GMT (UK) »
My 3xgt grandfather seemed to have had ten children. On the 1841 census, one child was called Nancy aged 15. I can find no other trace of her anywhere, though I have the baptisms of all the others. I found the baptism in 1841, of an Ann but realised that the mother would have been 57 in 1841. Then I discovered that another child, baptised in 1841, was actually born in 1831. I think it's fairly clear that Ann was born much earlier than 1841. In their father's will, he lists the surviving children in order, and in the position where Nancy should be, we find Ann. I know Nancy was sometimes used as a pet name for Ann. Do you think I'm justified in putting Ann and Nancy as the same person in my family tree?

Love Lynne

Yes - as pet names were also used on the census's - but at that age, Ann if a separate child may have been away from home working as a servant or some other form of work and may have married from there on - the will is important -was there any nancy on the list - if not then you can presume Nancy was Ann - one other thing to check if there was a death of a Nancy after the 1841 census that may then explain why she may have been excluded from the will - just a thought . . .

Other thing noted there was - you claim to have found a baptism in 1831 - that would make them only 10 in the 1841 census - but saying that it works like this - take note of each baptism and when they were registered as Catholics are known as to take their children in groups to be baptized and you could have children ranging from birth to 16 all being baptized in one go - and if the births themselves were not registered leaving you with just the baptisms - it would all depend on the priest if he noted the children's ages to give any indication of birth year . . .

A good starting point would be that 1841 census if you could list the parent's names and ages and work down in order to see if we can help in any way to helping you resolve this problem . . .
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Offline Rena

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Re: Could I have your opinion please?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 18 February 19 16:38 GMT (UK) »
I agree with Indiana.59
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Offline Gadget

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Re: Could I have your opinion please?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 18 February 19 17:44 GMT (UK) »
I have Ann's in my tree who were known as Nancy so agree with Rena and Indiana. Have you looked for a marriage for Ann/Nancy that might help to sort it out?


Gadget
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Offline Lynne Tann-Watson

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Re: Could I have your opinion please?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 18 February 19 19:48 GMT (UK) »
There is no Nancy on the will, nor can I find any baptism, marriage or death for a Nancy. The 1841 census is the single mention of her that I can find anywhere.
Henry Tann born approx 1786 married Sarah Hounslow born approx 1784 in 1811
Sarah Ellizabeth bap 19th January 1812 died January 1828.
Mary Ann bap 5th June 1814.
Elizabeth bap 31st March 1816 died September 1817.
Elizabeth Frances bap 9th August 1818 died December 1837.
Henry born 24th January 1821 (bap 6th May 1821) Died 1852
William Thomas born 16th May 1823 (bap 1st May 1825) died 1891
Nancy born approx 1826
John Walker born 11th March 1828 (bap 30th March 1828) died 1899
James born 12th January 1831 (bap 16th April 1841) Died 1904.
Then there is the baptism of Ann 9th May 1841.



Offline Indiana.59

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Re: Could I have your opinion please?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 18 February 19 22:10 GMT (UK) »
There is no Nancy on the will, nor can I find any baptism, marriage or death for a Nancy. The 1841 census is the single mention of her that I can find anywhere.
Henry Tann born approx 1786 married Sarah Hounslow born approx 1784 in 1811
Sarah Ellizabeth bap 19th January 1812 died January 1828.
Mary Ann bap 5th June 1814.
Elizabeth bap 31st March 1816 died September 1817.
Elizabeth Frances bap 9th August 1818 died December 1837.
Henry born 24th January 1821 (bap 6th May 1821) Died 1852
William Thomas born 16th May 1823 (bap 1st May 1825) died 1891
Nancy born approx 1826
John Walker born 11th March 1828 (bap 30th March 1828) died 1899
James born 12th January 1831 (bap 16th April 1841) Died 1904.
Then there is the baptism of Ann 9th May 1841.

HENRY TANN marries SARAH HOUNSLOW 1811

Henry Tann is on 1841 census 55 B: 1786

His wife is up as MARY TANN 50 B: 1791

JOHN IS 12 B: 1829

JAMES IS 10 B: 1831

NANCY IS 15 B: 1826

Has Sarah wife to Henry Tann also changed names too . . . ?

HENRY TANN + SARAH HOUNSLOW
MARRIAGE 1811 - 17 Mar 1811 - Saint Martin in The Fields, Westminster, London, England

N = No and Y = Yes in the column indicates neither Henry or Mary were born within the county of Westminster - but all of their children were . . .

We now need that will . . .  :)

1) To see if Henry's wife was still alive and what was her name . . .

2) To see if there is an address/s and how this relates to Henry Tann and possible to any of the children places of births or Henry's trade in life as sometimes this is also mentioned in the will . . .
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Offline pinefamily

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Re: Could I have your opinion please?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 18 February 19 23:49 GMT (UK) »
I agree with the others. I have a collateral ancestor always referred to as Nancy or Nan in every record except for the marriage where she is Ann. Luckily for me her husband's name was very distinctive so there was no doubt.
I am Australian, from all the lands I come (my ancestors, at least!)

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Offline Lynne Tann-Watson

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Re: Could I have your opinion please?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 19 February 19 06:57 GMT (UK) »
I am a little bemused by the appearance of Mary on the 1841 census too. All the children shown on the census are baptised as child of Henry and Sarah, he married Sarah 10 months before the first child was born and she is still alive at his death, and mentioned in the will as "My dear wife Sarah". Henry's mother was Mary, so the only thing I can think is that whoever told the census enumerator the names, got mixed up...perhaps the enumerator said something about mother's name and they thought it meant Henry's mother? There is no other mention of a Mary at all.

Sarah comes from Oxfordshire according to the 1851 census. I can't find a baptism for Henry, but his parents were living in various places before they settled in Chelsea, most of them only a few miles away, but technically in Surrey, so I think that may be why his birth is not in Middlesex.

Yes, his wife is still alive at the time of the will (she dies in 1852. She is on the 1851 census and I have her death certificate.) He leaves everything to his "Dear wife Sarah for the duration of her life.)

I do have Henry's death certificate, not long after the date of the will so have his address and trade on that, and his address is also shown on the will. This is not the one where he spent most of his life but appears to be where he moved to several years before his death. Most of the children were born at the same address in Chelsea (the previous one to that on the will and death cert) and he is also shown in trade directories as being at that address. Usefully, this is also where his father, also Henry, lived and is shown in directories, linking the two together beautifully.

After leaving everything to his wife in the will, he then says that after her death, everything should be divided equally between any children that survive her, then listing the children alive at the time as Mary Ann, Henry, William Thomas, Ann, John Walker and James.

Most pieces of the puzzle fit together nicely. There are just the couple of bits that throw things into a bit of confusion. The more I look at all the info, and other people on here saying that their Anns and Nancys are interchangeable, the more likely it seems that Ann and Nancy are the same.

Thank you and everyone for your input. So shall I mark Ann and Nancy as one on my FT?

Offline bykerlads

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Re: Could I have your opinion please?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 19 February 19 08:18 GMT (UK) »
Am always surprised that fsmilies gave shortened or pet names to the official census man.
I have a Florence down as Florrie and  a Beatrice as Beetee.