St Philip's, Sydney, birth/baptism dates 1805-1815

[GeoffTurner]

Hi,
Several people on my tree born around 1805-1815 have a Birth Index entry which just shows the year, and a Births and Baptism record which shows a Birth Date, and a Place of Birth as St Philip, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia. I assume that the church is where they were baptised, but does anyone know for sure whether the "Birth Date" on this record is in fact the baptism date (and we don't have the birth date), or if the church records have the correct birth date but omit the date of the baptism? Thanks, Geoff

[aus*jen]

Hi Geoff,  The experts will be along soon to give you a definitive answer.  I don't have experience
               with early Anglican records but have some early Roman Catholic baptism records.
               These are a record of baptism and the date of baptism is recorded. Sometimes, but not
               always the date of birth is also recorded and clearly states "born on".

Jen.

[GeoffTurner]

Thanks Jen,
I'm accustomed to the sort of records you mention. But these have only one date listed, which is "Birth Date". But then the Church is listed as "Birth Place", so presumably it should be "Baptism" not "Birth" in both cases. 

[majm]

In 1810, the new Governor of NSW (Lachlan Macquarie) issued a series of General Orders that required all the clergy (regardless of their denomination) to forward (transmit) details of the baptisms, burials, marriages and churchings ceremonies that they conducted throughout the then territory of NSW to the NSW Chaplains.  Rev Cowper, at St Phillips was one of those NSW Chaplains.  He recorded the ceremonies that he conducted at St Phillips AND all the ones he was notified of from those records transmitted to him.  Similarly St Johns C of E at Parramatta where Rev Samuel Marsden was the incumbent.  The General Orders continued to require Quarterly Returns right through until they were no longer required with the commencement of Civil Registration for NSW IN 1856.   The General Orders did not provide any funding for the clergy to cover their expenses in transmitting those records, nor for any consideration for the various denominations own church laws re the sanctity of their own registers.   And thus, the General Orders were obeyed more in their breach than in any other way.

The Biographical Database of Australia is a fairly new online facility that is an ongoing and not for profit project and at present includes some of the ones you would likely be considering.  There is a nominal annual subscription fee of about $30

https://www.bda-online.org.au/

You can search the indexes for free http://bda-online.org.au/mybda/search

Sources there currently include https://www.bda-online.org.au/sources/

May I also suggest the following from NSW BDM online : https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/about-us/history-of-registry.aspx

JM

[majm]

Thanks Jen,
I'm accustomed to the sort of records you mention. But these have only one date listed, which is "Birth Date". But then the Church is listed as "Birth Place", so presumably it should be "Baptism" not "Birth" in both cases.

Can you please take a snip of that section and attach it ?

JM

[majm]

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.0 

includes live links to parish registers for Christ Church Cathedral (Hexham, Newcastle, NSW) from late 1820s ..



Baptisms, Marriages, Burials, Christ Church Cathedral, Newcastle
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606066769147/ 1820 – 1899 Family Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605008173551/ 1826 – 1837 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157604433014652/ 1837 – 1838 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605132739200/ 1839 – 1861 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605674610949/ 1856 – 1868 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605785759029/ 1869 – 1885 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605802132868/ 1885 – 1897 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606197590347/ 1899 – 1913 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605928662968/ 1913 – 1914 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606308436455/ 1914 – 1916 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606323070651/ 1916 – 1918 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606450662513/ 1918 – 1929 Marriage Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606952230042/ 1929 – 1936 Marriages Register

JM

[GeoffTurner]

I am looking in particular at four sisters, this is one of them.

Australia, Births and Baptisms, 1792-1981
View Record
Name Diana Douse
Gender Female
Birth Date 27 Nov 1808
Birth Place St Philip, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Father Isaac Douse
Mother Esther
FHL Film Number 993949
Household Members
Name Age
Name Esther
Name Isaac Douse
Name Diana Douse

[majm]

I am looking in particular at four sisters, this is one of them.

Australia, Births and Baptisms, 1792-1981
View Record
Name Diana Douse
Gender Female
Birth Date 27 Nov 1808
Birth Place St Philip, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Father Isaac Douse
Mother Esther
FHL Film Number 993949
Household Members
Name Age
Name Esther
Name Isaac Douse
Name Diana Douse

do you have the actual primary source document upon which that transcription is based?  I suspect the particular heading is NOT on the parish register.   

JM

[majm]

The BDA has an entry for Diana Douse, and it notes that the baptism was registered at St Philip's Church of England, Sydney 30 March 1810, and also sadly that there's a burial 1 April 1810 for her.  There's further information too... 

JM