Author Topic: James Marsh Unsworth Bury Lancashire  (Read 426 times)

Offline retiredjan

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James Marsh Unsworth Bury Lancashire
« on: Friday 22 February 19 12:00 GMT (UK) »
I have a James MARSH who I have found on three Jurors lists 1799. 1805 and 1809 living at Oak Gate Unsworth Pilkington.
His age suggests that he was born circa 1750.
He had two sons, Ralph and Abraham both baptised together in 1791 in Monton, Eccles .
Seems to have moved to Unsworth sometime after 1791.
His decendants are mostly buried at St Mary The Virgin Prestwich but I cannot find him there. Nor can I find him at St George Unsworth.
Can anyone suggest where he may be buried please?

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Offline Barbara.H

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Re: James Marsh Unsworth Bury Lancashire
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 23 February 19 00:06 GMT (UK) »
Not the answer to your question but might narrow down the timescale for a death:

The Bankrupts list in the Gazette archive for 18 November 1817 , includes:
James Marsh of Pilkington, farmer, dealer and chapman
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/17306/page/2352

If that's your man, he was still alive in 1817.

 :) Barbara
LANCS:  Greenwood, Greenhalgh, Fishwick, Berry,
CHES/DERBYS:  Vernon
YORKS/LINCS: Watson, Stamford, Bartholomew,
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: James Marsh Unsworth Bury Lancashire
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 23 February 19 02:08 GMT (UK) »
Have you looked for a will?

Offline garstonite

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Re: James Marsh Unsworth Bury Lancashire
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 23 February 19 06:52 GMT (UK) »
I have a James MARSH who I have found on three Jurors lists 1799. 1805 and 1809 living at Oak Gate Unsworth Pilkington.
His age suggests that he was born circa 1750.
He had two sons, Ralph and Abraham both baptised together in 1791 in Monton, Eccles .
Seems to have moved to Unsworth sometime after 1791.
His decendants are mostly buried at St Mary The Virgin Prestwich but I cannot find him there. Nor can I find him at St George Unsworth.
Can anyone suggest where he may be buried please?
......................................
do you think they had a daughter Phoebe as well ?

Birth: 28 Jan 1791 Monton Green Presbyterian Chapel, Eccles, Lancashire, England
Abraham Marsh - Son of James Marsh & Mary
    Abode: Swinton
    Date Registered: 27 Mar 1791
    Registered By: George Wiche Minister
......................................................................................
Birth: 25 Aug 1788 Monton Green Presbyterian Chapel, Eccles, Lancashire, England
Ralph Marsh - Son of James Marsh & Mary
    Abode: Swinton
    Date Registered: 27 Mar 1791
    Registered By: George Wiche Minister
.........................................................................................
Baptism: 5 Jul 1789 St Mary the Virgin, Eccles, Lancashire, England
Phoebe Marsh - Daughter of James Marsh & Mary
    Abode: Worsley
    Occupation: Weaver
different church and 3 years earlier - but I wouldn't rule her out as same parents names ..

possible marriage ?
Marriage: 3 Jul 1788 St Mary the Virgin, Eccles, Lancashire, England
James Marsh - (X), 20 years, this Parish
Mary Howarth - (X), 19 yrs., this Parish
    Witness: John Collier; Jonn. Shaw
    Married by Licence, J. Crookhall, Surr. by: W. Barnett, Curate
or
might be a different James and Mary ??
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire...... sacht,helgoland .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis.. jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline garstonite

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Re: James Marsh Unsworth Bury Lancashire
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 23 February 19 07:11 GMT (UK) »
Baptism: 27 Mar 1842 St George, Unsworth, Lancashire, England
Hannah Marsh - Daughter of Abraham Marsh & Mary
    Born: 19 Aug 1841
    Abode: Whitefield
    Occupation: Weaver
................................................
Baptism: 8 Jan 1843 St George, Unsworth, Lancashire, England
Eliel Marsh - Son of Ralph Marsh & Elizabeth
    Born: 22 unknown month
    Abode: Unsworth
    Occupation: Weaver
    Baptised by: Benjn. Crompton
    Register: Baptisms 1841 - 1891, Page 11, Entry 81
    Source: LDS Film 2356300

Baptism: 10 Mar 1844 St George, Unsworth, Lancashire, England
Thomas Jackson Marsh - Son of Ralph Marsh & Elizabeth
    Born: unknown month
    Abode: Unsworth
    Occupation: Weaver
.............................................................
so although Ralph is in Unsworth - Abraham is in WHITEFIELD - later baptisms also in Whitefield - have you searched Whitefield for James Marsh burials ?
.................................................
Baptism: 22 Apr 1846 St George, Unsworth, Lancashire, England
Hannah Marsh - Daughter of James Marsh & Elois
    Born: 19 Apr 1846
    Abode: Unsworth
    Occupation: Weaver
another Marsh - all 3 Weavers - Abraham / Ralph / James - do you think he could be a sibling of Abraham and Ralph ?
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire...... sacht,helgoland .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis.. jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline retiredjan

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Re: James Marsh Unsworth Bury Lancashire
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 23 February 19 07:16 GMT (UK) »
I appreciate all the suggestions but I am unsure as to how I respond directly to each helpful person.
I do not think Phoebe is a sibling to Ralph and Abraham as Ralph was born 1788 but was baptised at Monton Green with his brother Abraham in 1791.
As Phoebe was baptised at the mother church of St Mary The Virgin in 1789 I am wondering why, if Ralph was her brother, he wasn't baptised with her instead of in 1791.
The newspaper article is interesting.
From the jurors lists James appears to have been born in c 1750. The marriage of a James MARSH to Mary Howarth in 1788 suggests this James was born c 1768 not 1750. Of course ages may not be accurate and perhaps, because Mary was 19 he falsified his age!
I did wonder how my James could become a juror if he was a mere weaver as he wouldn't have earned enough to be a freeholder. However the address given on the jurors lists record him as living at Oak Gate Unsworth which is where subsequent members of his family continued to live. It was a hamlet of just a few cottages and his son and grandchildren can still be found living in Oak Gate on several censuses.
If, as the newspaper suggests that James Marsh was a farmer and dealer then this James would very likely be a fredholder. Pilkington covered a wider area than tiny Unsworth although Unsworth was in Pilkington.
The plot thickens....
Garstonite..I have just seen your notification.
I do have those baptisms thankyou. They are indeed all my family but James isn't buried at St George's either.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: James Marsh Unsworth Bury Lancashire
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 23 February 19 18:41 GMT (UK) »
I did wonder how my James could become a juror if he was a mere weaver as he wouldn't have earned enough to be a freeholder. However the address given on the jurors lists record him as living at Oak Gate Unsworth which is where subsequent members of his family continued to live. It was a hamlet of just a few cottages and his son and grandchildren can still be found living in Oak Gate on several censuses.
If, as the newspaper suggests that James Marsh was a farmer and dealer then this James would very likely be a fredholder.
I take issue with "mere weaver". It depends on how successful he was. Do you know if he worked for an employer or on his own account, or worked at home with his family to help, or set up a business either with family or business associates and leased premises?
James may have combined farming and weaving. The farming might have been small-scale, with  weaving providing the greater part of his cash income. I know of men who sometimes recorded  occupation as farmer and at other times as weaver; they remained at the same property. Have you found the family and the property in tithe records? What about leases?
One of my ancestors, a stone mason, was in a poll book in 1780s. He died, aged 75 in 1810; his estate was valued at under 100.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: James Marsh Unsworth Bury Lancashire
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 23 February 19 19:28 GMT (UK) »
Juror property qualification.
Act 1695-6: Holder of land (freehold, copyhold or life tenure) worth at least 10 p.a.
Act 1729-30: Long-term leaseholders qualified if they occupied property worth 20 or more p.a.
(Jurors' Lists, High Littleton History)

See also the speech of Mr Weston M.P. on Jurors' Qualification Bill 1823 in Hansard.
"Three-fourths of the occupiers of land, many of the most opulent, were not possessors of land to the amount of 10 a year, and consequently not qualified, whilst their very labourers, possessing copyhold tenements to that amount were known in some instances, to have been called to the performance .. of service "

Offline retiredjan

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Re: James Marsh Unsworth Bury Lancashire
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 24 February 19 05:39 GMT (UK) »
I never thought about that before so thankyou.
I cannot find a will. I did find a will of his son Ralph and have a copy of it.
He was living in Swinton when his two sons were born and I couldn't find a reason for him moving to Unsworth.
Of course no censuses with him so difficult to check out where he was born etc. James Marsh...common name...
Do you have any advice please as to what I could do next?