Author Topic: Possible Patronymic name change.  (Read 405 times)

Offline Twdyr

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Possible Patronymic name change.
« on: Sunday 24 February 19 19:18 GMT (UK) »
Paternal FTDNA gives me close matches with a number of 'Hughes' matches in USA, at 37, 67, & 111 markers. Our common ancestor looks to date around 1400/1500's but I'm puzzled that I am a 'Jenkins' and how the name changed to Hughes.

I can only think of patronymics, for example, two brothers: Hugh Jenkins stayed in the UK, producing my direct family, whilst his brother, Jenkin Hugh, emigrated to USA (names are made up!)

Just wondered if anyone had any other thoughts or suggestions.
Thank you for reading this
Jenkins: Guilden Sutton/Plemonstall, Manley, Bebington: Cheshire. Wales, Hawarden.
Hughes/Jenkins pre-1650 north Wales., possibly Anglesey/ or Huyish of Somerset.
Smith: Somerset, North Curry area.
Dawson: Birkenhead, Lancashire, and USA.
Lawton: Birkenhead, Wirral, Staffordshire.
Jones: Flintshire, Flint
Lea/Newnes: Chirk Mill, Penley, Hanmer, Worthenbury
Williams: Llanbeblig/Caernarvon.
Rowland: Llandrygarn, Anglesey.
Brew/Lewney: Isle of Man
Powell/Bennett/Forward/Coram: Somerset/Wellington

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Offline IJDisney

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Re: Possible Patronymic name change.
« Reply #1 on: Monday 25 February 19 09:37 GMT (UK) »
One of the most common reasons for something like this would be either illegitimacy (the child has the mother's surname, rather than the father's), or adultery (the child has the presumed father's name rather than the real father's name).

There are, of course, many other possibilities for a name change - adoption, step families, criminal aliases, terms of a will, amnesia, personal whims, [EDIT - and patronymic], etc. The divergence from a common name could have occurred 600 years ago, or it could have occurred 100 years ago. It could even have occurred before surnames became 'set'. Both lines might not even have the 'original' common surname if both had name changes, and there might be more than one name change in either line! More research is needed, and even then you might never find out.

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Offline Old Bristolian

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Re: Possible Patronymic name change.
« Reply #2 on: Monday 25 February 19 09:41 GMT (UK) »
Twdyr, you may well be right about the possibility of a difference caused by Welsh patronymics. I have a similar idea about a family of mine. It all depends on when the change from patronymics to surnames occurred; if in different generations then the final surnames would differ,

Steve
Bumstead - London, Suffolk
Plant, Woolnough, Wase, Suffolk
Flexney, Godfrey, Burson, Hobby -  Oxfordshire
Street, Mitchell - Gloucestershire
Horwood, Heale Drew - Bristol
Gibbs, Gait, Noyes, Peters, Padfield, Board, York, Rogers, Horler, Heale, Emery, Clavey, Mogg, - Somerset
Fook, Snell - Devon
M(a)cDonald, Yuell, Gollan, McKenzie - Rosshire
McLennan, Mackintosh - Inverness
Williams, Jones - Angelsey & Caernarvon

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Re: Possible Patronymic name change.
« Reply #3 on: Monday 25 February 19 09:44 GMT (UK) »
Just to add that I think it is quite possibly patronymics.

Much later than your instances (18th -mid 19thC), I have two brothers, sons of an Ellis ap Robert. One son became Robert Ellis (my 3x grt grandfather) and his brother became John Roberts.  It took me quite a while to sort this out and was only finally established by John's marriage record.

Gadget

Add - re Steve's post, above - I found that the switch from patronymics to surnames changed, depending on the vicar, so some years were surnames and then changed back to patronymics, etc.
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Offline ray jenkins

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Re: Possible Patronymic name change.
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 20 April 19 21:28 BST (UK) »
Iím a Jenkins from Liverpool and also stuck at an Edward Jenkins born approx 1778. His dna haplogroup is I1-z138 plus many branches also tested at FTDNA. Iím curious as to your haplogroup.?

Offline Twdyr

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Re: Possible Patronymic name change.
« Reply #5 on: Monday 22 April 19 11:11 BST (UK) »
Hi Ray,
I have tested with Ancestry and FtDNA (Family Finder & Y DNA up to 111 markers. The higher markers of 37/67/111 match me with 'Hughes' with 'Jenkins' only appearing at 12.
My predicted Haplogroup is R-M269. Paper documents suggest my family date to Hawarden from about 1668, my direct line moving to Cheshire.

 I can send my FtDNA STR certificate with all the DYS numbers (DNA is still much of a mystery!), details of my Ancestry tree and GEDMATCH (but not sure if this is still working). If this helps, do send me a PM and e-mail address for me to send them.
Thanks for your interest,
Philip
Jenkins: Guilden Sutton/Plemonstall, Manley, Bebington: Cheshire. Wales, Hawarden.
Hughes/Jenkins pre-1650 north Wales., possibly Anglesey/ or Huyish of Somerset.
Smith: Somerset, North Curry area.
Dawson: Birkenhead, Lancashire, and USA.
Lawton: Birkenhead, Wirral, Staffordshire.
Jones: Flintshire, Flint
Lea/Newnes: Chirk Mill, Penley, Hanmer, Worthenbury
Williams: Llanbeblig/Caernarvon.
Rowland: Llandrygarn, Anglesey.
Brew/Lewney: Isle of Man
Powell/Bennett/Forward/Coram: Somerset/Wellington