Author Topic: John and Mary Smith - Central Otago  (Read 726 times)

Offline Sairin8

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Re: John and Mary Smith - Central Otago
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 03 March 19 02:18 GMT (UK) »
Given that every single record from BDM is $25 each, I知 not buying all of these records. I知 not looking for Catherine, I知 looking for Mary and John. Please focus on these two

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Offline shanreagh

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Re: John and Mary Smith - Central Otago
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 03 March 19 02:20 GMT (UK) »
The 1869 birth looks to be a bit late, but will definitely investigate the others when I知 back on the computer.

......

A bit late for what?

Do you have details of when the family arrived in NZ? It is not unusual at all for there to be a prompt marriage after the death especially when there are lots of children to support.  And it may have been the first legal marriage as the earlier partnership with John Smith may not have been legal. 

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Offline Sairin8

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Re: John and Mary Smith - Central Otago
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 03 March 19 02:24 GMT (UK) »
A bit late for an Australian born child.

Mary married in NZ in 1870. She was earlier convicted of being a sly grog seller at the start of 1870, and was well settled in the community by this point (as her fine was paid in about 5 minutes by a large number of diggers waiting outside the court - pretty interesting story, btw).

There appears to be evidence she was in Bannockburn from 1866, plus appears to have taken John to court in 1863 in NZ.

Offline shanreagh

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Re: John and Mary Smith - Central Otago
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 03 March 19 02:36 GMT (UK) »
Given that every single record from BDM is $25 each, I知 not buying all of these records. I知 not looking for Catherine, I知 looking for Mary and John. Please focus on these two

Thanks will do but the information you are giving keeps altering a little Dial, Taylor, now Doyle. 

Most of us genealogists who do a lot of helping on these boards often do the equivalent of an athlete's warm-up to get the focus going and more importantly to replicate or disprove or add to the information that has been given. Once that is disposed of we then move onto other aspects. This is very much best procedural practice for us.

Family stories are great and often there is an element of truth in them....could you possibly identify/separate them out from the factual material though.

When did John come to NZ? Evidenced by?
Were they ever together in NZ
What evidence is there, apart from the later marriage certificate of his wife, that John Smith himself was ever in Bannockburn.
Did Mary come back and forth to NZ twice? Once to chase John and the other to bring the children?
What religion were they?  Important to be able to search in Ireland?
What is the evidence that Mary arrived on the ship after being convicted?
What is the evidence that she came from Dublin, also important for Irish searching
Why/where does Taylor/Tayler come into it?  Why are these names even mentioned?

Offline shanreagh

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Re: John and Mary Smith - Central Otago
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 03 March 19 02:41 GMT (UK) »
Ok presumably you have evidence that she was in Bannockburn from 1866 etc & took John to court in 1863. 

Where has the Taylor/Dial surnames come from?


Offline shanreagh

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Re: John and Mary Smith - Central Otago
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 03 March 19 02:45 GMT (UK) »
Children we have listed for John and Mary

Catherine Smith
BIRTH  17 Nov 1851  in Launceston, Tasmania, Australia
DEATH  25 May 1930  in Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand

William Smith
Son
BIRTH  15 May 1853
DEATH

John Fredrick Smith
Son
BIRTH  26 Dec 1856
DEATH

Walter Smith
Son
BIRTH  10 Oct 1858
DEATH

Mary Smith
Daughter
BIRTH  14 July 1862
DEATH

Tom Smith
Son
BIRTH  12 March 1865
DEATH

Dolly - Lishe Smith
Daughter
BIRTH  25 Jan 1867

Please advise which are Australian and which are NZ registered births.  Presume the last two were NZ births?

Offline Sairin8

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Re: John and Mary Smith - Central Otago
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 03 March 19 02:53 GMT (UK) »
These names are comin from different sources. The Doyle was from another forum where I received a good amount of help at the time I posted. These information I have keeps getting added to. As I noted, the Doyle surname was merely a possibility that we are looking at.

John Smith is very much the enigma in this situation. The only potential evidence of them being together in NZ was the birth of the youngest daughter in 1865 after the court case in 1863 (obviously possible non-paternal event, of course)

Taylor is the name on Mary痴 death certificate - apparently no first names for the parents though. There is now a suspicion that it was incorrect. I believe Dublin was on the birth certificate as well. Informant was the undertaker rather than family.
Religion varied from document to document - Mary was buried Baptist, married Presbyterian, and may have been Catholic at some stage.

Number of trips between Tasmania and NZ unknown. Various death certificates suggest 1860 and 1856 as possibilities as well, but of course these were decades after the fact.

We already have enough of the details verified via multiple sources for Catherine, her husbands, and children. For me to go into these details would significantly sidetrack my search. My fellow researcher actually DNA matches fairly closely to me and he痴 related through Catherine痴 first husband, while I descend via her second. (Ancestry suggests 4th cousin, paper trails suggests half second cousin once removed).

Offline Sairin8

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Re: John and Mary Smith - Central Otago
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 03 March 19 02:58 GMT (UK) »
I知 actually struggling to find any of them registered in either country. That will have to wait till I致e got a free hour or two though (tomorrow, if I知 lucky; next weekend, if I知 not)

Offline Sairin8

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Re: John and Mary Smith - Central Otago
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 03 March 19 03:00 GMT (UK) »
Though I am still new at navigating the Tasmanian record system... Familiar enough with the NZ system (though with a surname like Smith, it痴 always trickier). No births registered on 25/1/1867 for a Smith in NZ