John and Mary Smith - Central Otago

[Sairin8]

I don’t have any children listed for Mary and Samuel, none are listed on the BDM site. Possibly this in relation to one of Mary’s other children from her first marriage.

I don’t have a copy of either of Catherine’s marriage certificates. The more detailed information didn’t come onto the marriage certificates till 1880, so both would have had the same amount of info. (Blasted ancestors all marrying in 1879 - I have this issue on several lines). I have these details recorded and verified by various sources, but don’t have a copy of the actual certificates.

[shanreagh]

In the Tasmanian records (Campbell Town) on FS there is an unnamed female born to John Smith and Mary DALE Smith on 28/4/1850.

Said with my vaguely Irish NZ accent (per long ago irish grandmother) it could be heard as  Dale, Dial or Deal. 

How certain  are you of Catherine's birth date? Or is this an older sister?

Another child from FS

Name   Smith
Gender   Male
Birth Date   16 Oct 1854
Birthplace   , TASMANIA, AUSTRALIA
Father's Name   John Smith
Mother's Name   Mary Dale

And another possibly

Name   Smith
Event Type   Birth
Event Date   7 Mar 1869
Event Place   Campbell Town, Tasmania, Australia
Gender   Female
Father's Name   John Smith
Mother's Name   Dale Mary Smith

Name   Benjamin Smith
Event Type   Birth
Event Date   6 Mar 1852
Event Place   Campbell Town, Tasmania, Australia
Gender   Male
Father's Name   John Smith
Mother's Name   Dale Mary Smith

Name   Ernest Herbert Smith
Event Type   Birth
Event Date   10 Jan 1856
Event Place   Campbell Town, Tasmania, Australia
Gender   Male
Father's Name   John Smith
Mother's Name   Mary Dale Smith
Certificate Number   763

[shanreagh]

Australia Births and Baptisms, 1792-1981

birth:   16 October 1854   , TASMANIA, AUSTRALIA   
father:   John Smith
mother:   Mary Dale   
Ernest Herbert Smith
Australia, Tasmania, Civil Registration (District Registers), 1839-1938

birth:   10 January 1856   Campbell Town, Tasmania, Australia   
father:   John Smith
mother:   Mary Dale Smith      
Smith
Australia, Tasmania, Civil Registration (District Registers), 1839-1938

birth:   20/6/1852   Campbell Town, Tasmania, Australia   
father:   John Smith
mother:   Mary Dale      
Lewis Smith
Australia, Tasmania, Civil Registration (District Registers), 1839-1938

birth:   20 June 1862   Campbell Town, Tasmania, Australia   
father:   John Smith
mother:   Mary Dale Smith      
Minnie Smith
Australia, Tasmania, Civil Registration (District Registers), 1839-1938

birth:   28 January 1866   Campbell Town, Tasmania, Australia   
father:   John Smith
mother:   Mary Dale Smith      
Smith
Australia, Tasmania, Civil Registration (District Registers), 1839-1938

birth:   24 August 1863   Campbell Town, Tasmania, Australia   
father:   John Smith
mother:   Mary Dale Smith      
Smith
Australia, Tasmania, Civil Registration (District Registers), 1839-1938

birth:   16 October 1854   Campbell Town, Tasmania, Australia   
father:   John Smith
mother:   Mary Dale Smith      
Smith
Australia, Tasmania, Civil Registration (District Registers), 1839-1938

birth:   8 April 1850   Campbell Town, Tasmania, Australia   
father:   John Smith
mother:   Mary Dale Smith      
Benjamin Smith
Australia, Tasmania, Civil Registration (District Registers), 1839-1938

birth:   6 March 1852   Campbell Town, Tasmania, Australia   
father:   John Smith
mother:   Mary Dale Smith      
Not Given Smith
Australia Births and Baptisms, 1792-1981

birth:   24 August 1863   Campbell Town, Tasmania, Australia
residence:   1863   Tasmania, Australia   
father:   John Smith
mother:   Mary Dale   
Smith MALE
Australia Births and Baptisms, 1792-1981

birth:   20 June 1862   CAMPBELL TOWN, TASMANIA, AUSTRALIA
residence:   1862   Tasmania, Australia   
father:   John Smith
mother:   Mary Dale

The child born in 1869 was subsequently named Louise Charlotte according to the register.  John Smith was still alive to register the child on 27/3/1869 so that closes the gap for his death.   

[Sairin8]

The 1869 birth looks to be a bit late, but will definitely investigate the others when I’m back on the computer.

There’s also a possibility of the surname Doyle, and we’ve found orphanage records which shows the correct ages (pretty much to the day) for Catherine and two of her brothers as Mary was about to travel to NZ to chase John after he deserted her. If so, Mary Doyle arrived in Tasmania on the Arabian in 1847 after conviction in Dublin in October 1846 (there’s 2 Mary Doyle’s on the Arabian, both convicted in Dublin in October 1846, just got to work out which one). And John Smith would have arrived on the Palmyra (with three other John Smith’s!) in 1846. Still chasing this link to see if we can confirm or deny

[Sairin8]

Children we have listed for John and Mary

Catherine Smith
BIRTH  17 Nov 1851  in Launceston, Tasmania, Australia
DEATH  25 May 1930  in Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand

William Smith
Son
BIRTH  15 May 1853
DEATH

John Fredrick Smith
Son
BIRTH  26 Dec 1856
DEATH

Walter Smith
Son
BIRTH  10 Oct 1858
DEATH

Mary Smith
Daughter
BIRTH  14 July 1862
DEATH

Tom Smith
Son
BIRTH  12 March 1865
DEATH

Dolly - Lishe Smith
Daughter
BIRTH  25 Jan 1867

[wivenhoe]

NZ BDM births
1870/40451   PERRY Jane                 parents   Kathrine /   Alfred
1872/40156   PERRY  Alice Maria      parents   Catherine / Alfred
873/27739   PERRY  Alfred             parents   Catherine / Alfred   
1874/40806   PERRY  William           parents   Catherine / Alfred
1876/15212   PERRY  John               parents   Catherine / Alfred


1881/9892   DICKEY   David                        parents Catherine / William
1880/4046   DICKEY   Thomas Henry           parents Catherine / William   
1882/18538   DICKEY   Robert William           parents Catherine / William   
1884/13973   DICKEY   Rose Ann Margaret   parents Catherine / William
1885/14992   DICKEY   Henry Alexander        parents Catherine / William
1887/18526   DICKIE   Joseph Herbert           parents Catherine / William      
1889/3447   DICKEY   Martha Maud             parents Catherine / William    
1892/8756   DICKEY   Ernest Albert             parents Catherine / William   
1899/1678   DICKEY   Mallelta May              parents Catherine / William   

   
Any birth record, 1875+, will record age and birthplace for parents.

Do you have a birth record with information about mother Catherine, preferably with Catherine as informant?


      

[Sairin8]

It won’t record those details for grandparents though, and that’s what I’m looking for. I’m looking for Mary and John’s details, not Catherine’s

[shanreagh]

The 1869 birth looks to be a bit late, but will definitely investigate the others when I’m back on the computer.

There’s also a possibility of the surname Doyle, and we’ve found orphanage records which shows the correct ages (pretty much to the day) for Catherine and two of her brothers as Mary was about to travel to NZ to chase John after he deserted her. If so, Mary Doyle arrived in Tasmania on the Arabian in 1847 after conviction in Dublin in October 1846 (there’s 2 Mary Doyle’s on the Arabian, both convicted in Dublin in October 1846, just got to work out which one). And John Smith would have arrived on the Palmyra (with three other John Smith’s!) in 1846. Still chasing this link to see if we can confirm or deny

OK so it was Doyle not Dial...quite a bit of difference between them.  The Registrar is hearing Dale and the informant John Smith is obviously saying it so Registrar hears it this way.  Unlikely that Registrar would have misheard as Doyle would have been far more usual to hear Doyle than Dale. 

[wivenhoe]

You need to see what Catherine records about herself........not what is recorded about her by others.

NZ BDM death
1892/6293   CHAMPION   Samuel   73Y

This will ask for details about children. Do you have this record?

At 1881...child maintenance matter.........I wonder if Samuel would be responsible to support children not born to him?