John Thomas's father

[nibbs]

Have any of you seen the new ancestry DNA  connection it has a Catherine garratt  down as my 4 great grandmother my 3 great grandfather is John Thomas 1804 bagillt Flintshire on family search there is a John Thomas mother Catherine garratt and father Thomas foulk  born same year christening date17 June 1804 hawarden if this my John's father why different surname he is John Thomas on every other census
          Wendy

[dragonT]

John Thomas son of Thomas Foulke is simply an example of the old Welsh practice of patronymic naming - a father's forename becoming the child's 'surname', before family surnames became fixed. It is quite a late example for Flintshire but there are plenty of examples in the more rural, north-western counties of Wales until the middle of the nineteenth century.

It seems Thomas Foulke(s) & Catherine Garratt had other children, siblings of John, baptised at Hawarden (Findmypast):
Ann - 1805
Mary - 1806
William - 1807
Robert - 1810
Humphrey - 1812
John - 1814 (! see below)

John b.1804 died 1812 and was buried at Hawarden 7 July - "John son of Thomas Foulk, fisherman, age 8, Mancott". Of course, all the transcriptions of these records have surname Foulk(es). Are the later censuses for your ancestor John Thomas consistent with a birth in 1814?

Within the same generations in families there is no consistency in changing from patronymic to fixed  surnames. So in this family, you have John remaining as Thomas in later records but Humphrey appears in the 1851 census as Humphrey Foulkes (HO107, 2172, 798, 19).

[nibbs]

Thank you Dragon T that explains it all
             
           Wendy

[nibbs]

Dragon T
             You said John Thomas born 1804 died in 1812 see my John Thomas born 1804 married a phoebe tattum this is where I'm getting confused yet a few have trees have him down with Thomas faulk  and Catherine as his parents and now ancestry are saying I could be related to a person with Catherine coming up as my 4 great grandmother and Thomas faulk 4 great grandfather
          Regards Wendy

[dragonT]

              You said John Thomas born 1804 died in 1812 see my John Thomas born 1804 married a phoebe tattum this is where I'm getting confused

Hi Wendy,
It seems clear something isn't right here! I see the marriage John Thomas/Phoebe Tattum took place at Holywell 24 Apr 1824, so not John Thomas/Foulkes born 1814.

I have no experience of interpreting connections from DNA testing so can't comment on that.

There is a lot of information about Thomas Foulkes/Catherine Garratt and family in local parish records (Findmypast), perhaps there is something here which might help you?

They married 4 Sep 1803 at Hawarden, both were previously unmarried, Thomas is described as a fisherman (Foulk is transcribed Foulh).
Baptisms of their children:
John - 17 Jun 1804
Ann - 7 Apr 1805
Mary - 18 May 1806
William - 16 Aug 1807
Robert - 19 Jan 1810
Humphrey - 8 May 1812
John - 18 May 1814
John - 28 Feb 1816
Elizabeth - 15 May 1818
Catherine - 30 Apr 1820
Thomas - 4 Jul 1822
Richard - 7 Jun 1824
Hugh - 4 Feb 1827 (b. 14 Aug 1826)
All baptisms were at Hawarden, where it is given (1804-1818) Catherine's maiden name is Garratt, also before 1820 Thomas is described as a fisherman, later his occupation is flatman(?). They live successively at Aston, Shotton, Aston, Mancott, Shotton.

Burials:
John 7 Jul 1812, age 8, son of Thomas Foulk, fisherman, Mancott
John 14 Nov 1815, age 1, son of Thomas & Catherine Foulkes, fisherman, Mancott
William Foulkes 26 Mar 1831, age 24, flatman, Shotton
Hugh Foulkes 9 Feb 1853, age 26, mariner, Mancott
Thomas Foulkes 13 May 1857, age 82, labourer, Hawarden Union Workhouse
Thomas Foulkes 25 May 1872, age 92, mariner, Shotton
Catherine Foulks 25 Jan 1875, age 95, widow of Thomas Foulks, mariner, Shotton

Regards

[nibbs]

Thank you again 100% sure that family is not my John Thomas's mine are all bagillt Flintshire every census John is on says bagillt so someone has gone and put wrong parents down thought I was going mad for a while now I know thanks for your help really appreciate it
        Wendy