Author Topic: Bave family coat of arms  (Read 1492 times)

Offline Splodge2511

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Bave family coat of arms
« on: Saturday 02 March 19 12:48 GMT (UK) »
Hi all,

I'm a descendant of Dr Samuel Bave/Bauf who came to England from Cologne, Germany in the first half of the 17th century. One source from 1676 written by Thomas Guiddott, who knew Samuel personally, says that Samuel was "of a good family, as appears by a good Coat of Arms". Whilst I have the exact description of the shield that one of his sons (also Samuel) used - and I also know the family shield from the continent, on account of the description matching the latter Samuel's shield, minus the personal additions - I have no sources that describe the arms in its entirety. I take this to mean that either they only possessed the shield, or that I've just been unfortunate with my sources.

This is obviously proving particularly tricky owing to the Bave family coming originally from Lille (then Rijsel, and part of Flanders), with certain members migrating to Amsterdam and then, in some cases, on to Cologne. I imagine purely English arms would be easier to trace!

If anybody might know anything about the family's arms (and whether they did indeed only possess the shield), or even some advice on where to look for information on continental arms, I would be very grateful! I'm going to get in touch with the College of Arms to see if they can shed any light on anything, but I thought it could be useful to ask here too.

Apologies for the long-windedness!

Rachel

Offline hanes teulu

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Re: Bave family coat of arms
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 02 March 19 15:32 GMT (UK) »
A warm welcome to Rootschat.

Is that the Samuel Bauf/Bave buried in the Abbey Church of Bath (died 5 Aug 1668) with a marble monument describing " ... and these Armes; Or a Rose, Gules on a Chief B. a Lion passant argent"

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Bave family coat of arms
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 02 March 19 15:44 GMT (UK) »
I can find no mention of Bave or Bauf in Burke's General Armoury (1884 edition)?
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Bave family coat of arms
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 02 March 19 15:55 GMT (UK) »
Found something on Google books ;D

Famous Houses of Bath & District
https://archive.org/stream/famoushousesbat01meehgoog/famoushousesbat01meehgoog_djvu.txt

Search for "Bave"; starts on page 54.

The Baves came of a "good" family, their coat of arms in heraldic terms being — Or, a rose gules, on a chief azure a lion passant argent.

I have copied the relevant passages from that book (and made some corrections!).
Text file attached.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)


Offline KGarrad

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Re: Bave family coat of arms
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 02 March 19 16:03 GMT (UK) »
I often use DrawShield to get an idea of coats-of-arms.
Bave CoA attched ;D
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline Splodge2511

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Re: Bave family coat of arms
« Reply #5 on: Monday 04 March 19 16:43 GMT (UK) »
Hi folks, thanks for the replies  :)

Yes, that's the Samuel!

I've just dived into French and Dutch heraldry a little - since the family were from what is now Lille which was part of Flanders at the time - and from what I can gather, the full Coat of Arms in the British sense didn't really exist in their heraldry, it was mostly just the shields. It would also explain why the Arms of both Samuel and his son (also Samuel) were the same, as I know inherited British Arms are changed slightly to identify individuals rather than families as a unit, and this doesn't seem to have been the case on the continent. Now I'm curious about the change from the original family Arms described in the 16th century (Samuel's minus the Chief and Lion, and with green leaves and seeds in the Rose).

Apparently the bourgeois class (the Baves were a part of this as merchants) took Coats of Arms as fairly standard practice, so that explains how it came about originally.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who uses DrawShield - I showed my eight year old nephew the Arms through there, he was quite excited  ;D

I appear to have answered my own question here in the end (it's amazing how much better you research when you're not tired), but thank you so much for that document, I've not found that one on Google Books and there's a couple of bits in there that I didn't know or that confirm one or two things. For instance the fact that Guidott's memorial inscription to Samuel is no longer in Bath Abbey, which explains why I couldn't find the ruddy thing!

Thanks again, people  :)

Rachel