Who is Oswald Skene (really)

[colinskene]

My great grandfather was Oswald Skene. He died in 1905 aged 72 and his death cert has his mother as Elizabeth Skene (nee Wilson) and father William Skene.

I've never been able to find a marriage between William Skene and Elizabeth Wilson (William was married twice according to his death cert) and also I have never found a birth for Oswald in 1933 to these parents (most likely in Berwickshire).

Searching for any Oswald born on 1833 I found an Oswald Grieve born in Berwickshire and his mother was Elizabeth Skeen. Is this just a coincidence I have wondered or did somehow Elizabeth Grieve become Elizabeth Wilson and then go on to marry William Skene and then give Oswald the Skene surname?? .

Anyone able to help either with the birth of Oswald Skene or the marriage of William and Elizabeth and also does my logic of Oswald Grieve possibly being my gr grandfather hold any water?

Any help would be appreciated thanks

[vivdunstan]

An awful lot of births are not recorded in the Scottish parish registers, so you can't just look for a birth and be confident yours should be recorded. The Church was splitting in many ways, and people were increasingly non conformist.

Have you looked for Oswald in the early census returns? These are online at ScotlandsPeople.gov.uk and Ancestry.co.uk. But it's probably easiest for you to search the Scottish Borders ones at
https://scottishindexes.com/default.aspx Try a search for first name Oswald. Do not put in any surname into the search box.

The results include lots of refs to Oswald Grieve you found, but also many Oswald Skene refs (under various spellings of the surname). These include a Skeen family with what looks like son Oswald and parents William and Elizabeth:

https://scottishindexes.com/41transcript.aspx?houseid=75702026

Oswald may be the same man in 1851:

https://scottishindexes.com/51transcript.aspx?houseid=74402025

And 1861:

https://scottishindexes.com/61transcript.aspx?houseid=74701082

If that is your great granddad he was married by 1861. Can you trace a marriage record? And where was he living in later census returns? Those are not online at ScottishIndexes and you'd need to use other sites. You must look for him in every census return, which should record his birthplace, probably down to precise parish. The Oswald I found in 1851 and 1861 was born in Duns, Berwickshire.

[colinskene]

Thanks. That's definitely him in 1861. Can't understand how I've never seen the earlier census entries before. It's his parents marriage and his birth I am after really but thanks for the info so far

[vivdunstan]

Well as I said births are often unrecorded in the parish registers.

But so are marriages, especially if a couple married irregularly. You might find them in the kirk session minutes, but they're unindexed, and you'd need to narrow down to specific parishes to check.

If the 1841 Oswald is your chap this looks like his parents in 1851, with precise birthplaces:

https://scottishindexes.com/51transcript.aspx?houseid=74701005

I can't see any obvious sign of them in 1861, so it's possibly they'd died by then. Or might be in England.

This + the 1841 info should give you more clues to follow up.

But again you should look for your great granddad in later census returns, to be sure his birthplace looks like Duns.

[vivdunstan]

If the 1841 family is right his dad looks like the son of Oswald Skene and Elizabeth Penman baptism at Coldingham in 1808. As part of my pre-1820 Coldingham one place study I've indexed the Coldingham baptisms for 1800-1819, including occupations and addresses of parents, and names occupations and addresses of witnesses at baptisms. I'd be happy to check my database for your Coldingham Skenes. This might save you a few credits checking the baptisms on ScotlandsPeople. Private message me if you want me to check this, and I can give you my email address then.

[vivdunstan]

And the likely baptism of Oswald's mother Elizabeth Wilson: baptised 28 July 1796 at Swinton and Simprim, Berwickshire 28 July 1796, daughter of George Wilson and Isabel Paulin.

Again you may be able to trace a marriage record for her in the unindexed kirk session minutes. But you shouldn't be surprised not to trace it in the ScotlandsPeople church records.

Fortunately the early census returns give good clues.

[colinskene]

Thanks for the info. I've already research the Oswald Skene / Elizabeth Penman line and was always convinced this was my lot until I found the Oswald Grieve thing.

[colinskene]

Interestingly, I think Oswald Grieve's mother, Elizabeth Skene may actually be Oswald Skene / Elizabeth Penman's daughter

[vivdunstan]

Did you see William Skene husband of Elizabeth Wilson married a second time at Ladykirk in 1855? Do check that marriage certificate if you haven't already. It is full of information. Oswald Grieve (his nephew?) was a witness.

William Skene married a second time in April 1855 but died just a few months later, in September 1855. Again his death certificate as a 1855 one is jam packed full of information. Including the names and ages of all his children, surviving and dead. His son Oswald was 22 and still alive when William died. He died in Eccles parish but was buried at Ladykirk. I will have a peek for any pre 1855 stone.