Thomas Rice - did he marry his stepdaughter? (Bretby/Repton)

[ALewis]

Hello, I'm just wondering if anybody can help me make sense of my Rice family Please. Apologies for the long post but this is a complicated brick wall regarding my 5x great grandfather Thomas Rice. I believe he married twice.

Mary Orme (my 5x great grandmother) married John Abbot in 1792 in Bretby. Their children baptised in Bretby were: Joseph 1793, Mary 1795 John 1797 and Elizabeth 1799.  John Abbot's will was proved in 1799.

Mary Abbott (nee Orme) then remarried Thomas Rice by Licence in Burton upon Trent in 1800. Thomas was a bachelor, a farmer, aged 23, abode Burton. Mary was a widow, aged 22 years, abode Repton.

They had the following children that I know of in Bretby: Ellizabeth 1802, William 1804 (my 4x great grandfather), Thomas 1806, Sarah 1808, and Ann 1810.

I have found the following documents to show Thomas Rice settled in Repton:

1. Rootsweb - Newton Solney with year of examination William Rice aged 27 born Bradley (Bradby). Parents legally settled in Repton 1830.
2. Rootsweb - Newton Solney Bastardy Orders. Q3/40 Mary Dicken (my 4x great grandmother), William Rice in 1824. Thomas Rice surety, Repton.
3. Rootsweb - Thomas Rice of Newton Solney aged 19 born in Bradby (Bretby). Father acquired settlement in Repton. Hired to Joseph Orme (brother of Mary Orme) of Bradby. Mary wife of Thomas Rice says she hired her son to Joseph Orme 1825.

There is a marriage licence for Thomas Rice marrying another Mary Abbott 1813 in Derby. Thomas Rice a bachelor aged 21 upwards, abode Repton, farmer. Mary Abbott, 21 and upwards, spinster, abode Saint Peter, Derby.

I believe this is Thomas' second marriage. The children from this marriage baptised in Repton are: Catherine 1820, Emma 1822, Richard 1824, Rose 1826, Lucy 1830, John 1832, Zilphah 1834 (in Newton Solney) and Joseph 1838.

Thomas Rice was buried 31st August 1843 in Repton, abode Cockey, aged 69.

These are the problems I have:

- The first Mary (nee Orme would have been too old to have children in the 1830s.
- Thomas Rice was in the 1841 census in Repton with wife Mary. In the 1851 census onwards, Mary is a widow. She states she was born in the mid 1790s in Bradby.
- The only baptism in this time/location is Mary Abbott in 1795 to John Abbott and Mary (nee Orme and Thomas' Rice first wife). This makes me suspect he married his stepdaughter.
- If he did marry his stepdaughter, I haven't found a burial for his first wife Mary (formerly Abbott and nee Orme). Did they separate?

If you have read this far, I appreciate it. Thank you in advance for any help/advice you can given for this complicated leg!

Kind regards, ALewis

[rosie99]

Mary Orme (my 5x great grandmother) married John Abbot in 1792 in Bretby. Their children baptised in Bretby were: Joseph 1793, Mary 1795 John 1797 and Elizabeth 1799.  John Abbot's will was proved in 1799.

Mary Abbott (nee Orme) then remarried Thomas Rice by Licence in Burton upon Trent in 1800. Thomas was a bachelor, a farmer, aged 23, abode Burton. Mary was a widow, aged 22 years, abode Repton.

If I am reading what you have written correctly the Mary Abbott who married in 1800 was age 22 at the time that would make her year of birth c1788.  If she was the same person who was previously married to John Abbott in 1792 she would have been age 4 when she married

[ALewis]

Hi rosie99 - Sorry, I meant to say Mary Abbot aged 22 years and upwards in the 1800 marriage licence to Thomas Rice.

I have a marriage licence for Mary Orme and John Abbott. Mary was aged 18 and married with the consent of her brother Joseph Orme acting on behalf of their father Isaac Orme.

Mary Orme was baptised 1773 in Duffield to parents Isaac and Elizabeth Orme.

This is such a complicated line, I've been trying to solve it for 10 years. I'll post the marriage licences and censuses I have for Thomas and the two Marys. That will hopefully make it easier to understand.

Kindest regards,

Mandy

[ALewis]

This is the marriage licence I have for Thomas Rice and Mary Abbott (a widow, her maiden name was Orme). Thomas of Burton and Mary of Repton..

[ALewis]

This is the second marriage licence I have found for a Thomas Rice and Mary Abbott in 1813 in Saint Peter, Derby. Thomas was of Repton and Mary of Saint Peter, Derby.

[ALewis]

This is the 1841 census summary in Repton for Thomas and one of the Marys. Mary is 20 years younger than Thomas Rice.

[ALewis]

This is the 1851 census Summary in Repton for a Mary Rice. Place of birth given as Bretby in about 1797. Mary was a widow.

[ALewis]

If the Mary in the censuses married Thomas Rice in 1813, this is the only baptism I can find in the 1790s in Bradby/Bretby.

Her father was John Abbott and her mother was Mary (nee Orme).

This Mary baptised in 1795 was the half-sister of my 4th great grandfather William Rice.

I can find no burial for Thomas Rice in Bretby or Repton between 1800 and 1841. I know the parents of my William legally settled in Repton from Bretby. The only burial I can find for a Thomas Rice is 1843 in Repton.

That makes me suspect he is the father of all the children in Bretby/Repton between 1802 and 1838. As Mary Orme was born in 1773, she couldn't be the mother of the children born in the 1820s/1830s. The youngest being Joseph Rice, born 1838

So the mother of the younger children would very likely be Mary Abbott born in 1795 in Bretby. This ties in with the censuses. If this is the case, then Thomas probably married his stepdaughter!

I'm wondering if this was a bigamous marriage as I can't find a burial of the older Mary Rice (formerly Abbott, nee Orme).

[Maiden Stone]

If I am reading what you have written correctly the Mary Abbott who married in 1800 was age 22 at the time that would make her year of birth c1788.  If she was the same person who was previously married to John Abbott in 1792 she would have been age 4 when she married

If she was 22 in 1800 she would have been born c1778. That would put her around age 14 when she married first time. Still very young though.