Author Topic: Last name of bride? Wyllya Cartwright & Margaret July 26 1590  (Read 210 times)

Offline okkool

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Last name of bride? Wyllya Cartwright & Margaret July 26 1590
« on: Monday 04 March 19 00:15 GMT (UK) »
opinions needed on the last name (red arrows)

Thanks Brian
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Online goldie61

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Re: Last name of bride? Wyllya Cartwright & Margaret July 26 1590
« Reply #1 on: Monday 04 March 19 02:21 GMT (UK) »
Pretty tricky one okkool!
Just to complicate things, the writer uses different forms for the same letter - just within the name ‘margaret’ he uses 2 forms of the letter ‘r’, and yet another form of ‘r’ near the start of ‘Cartwright’.

I think the groom’s name will be ‘Wyllyam’.
If you go up 7 lines, you can see the contraction and ‘curled’ ending more clearly - in the record for ‘Wyllyam’ sone of Jhon Cooke ...........’.
I have seen this ‘curl’ contraction on the end of words to stand for an ‘n’, a ‘d’, and now an ‘m’.

As to the bride’s name I think it strats with an ‘E”.
4 lines above this is ‘Ellyn daughter of Robert............’
It’s a similar letter in the bride’s name, though hers is a little more joined up.
The it’s an ‘l’ and then an ‘r’, then possibly an ‘o’.
So we have ‘Elro....’
The next letter could be a ‘t’, (but it seems to have a long descender, which the writer doesn’t seem to do on his ‘t’s). Or it could be an ‘f’, but there is no hook at the top; the same goes for an ‘s’.

Hope fully somebody else can spot it!


Added:
It might be worth trying to search in that same register for any name that starts 'Elr............' ?
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

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Offline shanreagh

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Re: Last name of bride? Wyllya Cartwright & Margaret July 26 1590
« Reply #2 on: Monday 04 March 19 02:44 GMT (UK) »
Is it Elroy?
The E is a little different from the E in the Ellyn immediately below this line.  I also wondered if the first letter was C.

Offline okkool

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Re: Last name of bride? Wyllya Cartwright & Margaret July 26 1590
« Reply #3 on: Monday 04 March 19 04:11 GMT (UK) »
Goldie
I checked the Transcriptions of the register for the last 40 yrs elr etc. closest I could find is ellarton,

Just a thought.The last letter looks like a P as in baptised in the word below. Could it be a badly written "Eerpe or Erpe? A name that appears quite often. There happens to be a Margaret Erpe born in 1566 so it would match the marriage. I have attached a clip that has Eerpe name on it twice. It is from 5 yr in the future so maybe a different parish scribe.
People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors. Edmund Burke 1729-1797

Online goldie61

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Re: Last name of bride? Wyllya Cartwright & Margaret July 26 1590
« Reply #4 on: Monday 04 March 19 04:18 GMT (UK) »
I think you're right about the last letter being a 'p' okkool.
As you say, it is the same as the 'p' in 'baptised' below it. Well spotted.
There would still seem to be a letter between the 'r' and the 'p' though.
I'm not sure that letter after the capital would be another e - this scribe does those backwards e's on the whole in this style of handwriting, apart from the capital 'E', as in 'Ellyne', which is what we would now recognise as an 'e'. There again, he could have done 2 large 'e's, and the second one slipped a bit making it look more like an 'l'?

Good find with the 'Eerle' in the second clip. Same first 'e', same strange 'p', and the 'r' is one of the 3 kinds the writer of the first clip did. (On the 2nd line. Where's the other one? ).
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Last name of bride? Wyllya Cartwright & Margaret July 26 1590
« Reply #5 on: Monday 04 March 19 04:48 GMT (UK) »
Nice to hear from you, Brian.

You and goldie have pretty much worked it out already but for what it's worth I see:  Elrop

Online goldie61

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Re: Last name of bride? Wyllya Cartwright & Margaret July 26 1590
« Reply #6 on: Monday 04 March 19 04:56 GMT (UK) »
Nice to hear from you, Brian.

You and goldie have pretty much worked it out already but for what it's worth I see:  Elrop

That would have been stab at it HD now okkool has seen the 'p'.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Last name of bride? Wyllya Cartwright & Margaret July 26 1590
« Reply #7 on: Monday 04 March 19 05:18 GMT (UK) »
Good find with the 'Eerle' in the second clip. Same first 'e', same strange 'p', and the 'r' is one of the 3 kinds the writer of the first clip did. (On the 2nd line. Where's the other one? ).

Fifth line - starts with Thomas eaton.

I didn't mean to tread on your toes with the reading.  I could see you and Brian had it worked out.

Online goldie61

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Re: Last name of bride? Wyllya Cartwright & Margaret July 26 1590
« Reply #8 on: Monday 04 March 19 06:16 GMT (UK) »




I didn't mean to tread on your toes with the reading.  I could see you and Brian had it worked out.

Not at All HD. Your contributions are ALWAYS gratefully received. The more the merrier!  :)
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs