Author Topic: Impossible Ancestors  (Read 457 times)

Offline lost-in-yorkshire

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Impossible Ancestors
« on: Tuesday 05 March 19 12:32 GMT (UK) »
Could anyone help point me in the right direction of finding an ancestor?

My great grandmother's sister Mary Ann Hanson was born on the 15th of May 1876 in Bethnal Green, London.
To parents George Hanson (1825-1895) a Dairyman and Ann Hanson formerly Ames.

I am unable to find any more information on her.

Her older sister was Catherine Hanson born on the 21st February 1874.
On her birth certificate it states daughter of George Hanson (Dairyman) and Ann Hanson late Dowling formerly Ames.

From what I can gather George and Ann were never married.
Ann had been in a long term relationship with a David Dowling from 1868.

Mary Ann never appeared on census records with her mother or sister.
I have tried searching for deaths but nothing is showing.

I have also come across a workhouse record in 1883 for a Mary Ann Hanson with another child... A Elizabeth Hanson alias Anderson born 1879.

Ann had had a child in 1879 named Elizabeth Dowling that also never appeared on census records with them.

The Anderson connection is from Ann's elder sister Mary, who married a William Anderson in Bethnal Green in 1855, they do not appear on census records either.

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Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Impossible Ancestors
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 05 March 19 14:00 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat.  :)

Just for the sake of it this is Mary Ann's birth registration

HANSON, MARY  ANN     AMES 
GRO Reference: 1876  J Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN  Volume 01C  Page 257

So from your point if view all you have on Mary is her birth registration?
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

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Offline lost-in-yorkshire

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Re: Impossible Ancestors
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 05 March 19 14:06 GMT (UK) »
Yes, I have her birth certificate.
I modified my post to say mmn Ames.
All I have for certain is the birth as I cannot find any census records or a death record if she died young.

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Impossible Ancestors
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 05 March 19 15:14 GMT (UK) »
Hmm, interesting.....

Ann may have been in a relationship with David from 1868 but doesn't marry him until 1878

Marriages Jun 1878 
Ames    Ann        Bethnal Green    1c   370    
DOWLING    David        Bethnal Green    1c   370    

Children from the relationship

DOWLING, DAVID  FRANCIS     AMES 
GRO Reference: 1869  M Quarter in SAINT GEORGE IN THE EAST  Volume 01C  Page 439
 
DOWLING, ELIZABETH       AMES 
GRO Reference: 1870  S Quarter in SAINT GEORGE IN THE EAST  Volume 01C  Page 420
 
Another Elizabeth which implies that the one above died.

DOWLING, ELIZABETH       AMES 
GRO Reference: 1879  M Quarter in STEPNEY  Volume 01C  Page 462

Might be this death

Deaths Sep 1871   
Dowling    Elizabeth    0    Bethnal Green    1c   203

Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline osprey

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Re: Impossible Ancestors
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 05 March 19 15:25 GMT (UK) »
is this the family in question?

1871 Star St, St George in the East RG10/536 folio 50 pg 5
David Dowling head mar 25 bricklayer's labourer b. Ireland, Cork
Ann wife 24 boxmaker b. Bethnal Green
Caroline dau 4 b. St George in the East
Elizabeth dau 8 months b. St George

birth reg Elizabeth Dowling sept qtr 1870 St George in the East vol 1c pg 420 mmn Ames

1881 1 Gloucestershire St, Limehouse RG11/467 folio 25 pg 13
David Dowling head mar 35 general labourer b. Cork
Ann wife 34 matchbox maker b. Bethnal Green
Margaret dau 15 matchbox maker b. Whitechapel  - birth reg Margaret Ames jun qtr 1866 Whitechapel no mmn
Elizabeth dau 12 b. Ratcliff
Catharine dau 8 b. St Georges


1891 15 Perring St, Bromley Rg12323 folio 56 pg 5
David Dowling head mar 44 dock labourer b. Cork
Ann wife 43 matchbox maker b. Stepney
Catherine dau 17 fancy boxmaker
David son 10
Grace dau 6
William son 6 months
others born Bromley

Only baptism I've found so far is for Grace 8 April 1885 dau of David & Anne 5 St George's Court at St John the Evangelist, Stepney
birth reg Grace Dowling june qtr 1885 St George in the East vol 1c pg 348 mmn Ames

Marriage 2 April 1878 at St James the Great Bethnal Green for
David Dowling labourer father Patrick shoemaker and
Ann Ames father William cap maker


Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline lost-in-yorkshire

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Re: Impossible Ancestors
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 05 March 19 15:28 GMT (UK) »
From what I can gather with census information (with which you have also just posted) and birth information they (Ann and David) were having children from 1869 right up until 1895.
They married in the April of 1878.
My great grandmother Catherine was baptised in the September of 1878...as Hanson.
It seems that Ann may have had a brief relationship with George between 1873 and the start of 1878.

My theory is, that David was unsure of Catherine, or believed her to be his.
Mary Ann he knew was not. So could be part of the reason why Mary Ann is not with her family.?

Offline lost-in-yorkshire

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Re: Impossible Ancestors
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 05 March 19 15:31 GMT (UK) »
Do you think Caroline and Margaret could be one and the same? Or two individuals?

Offline osprey

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Re: Impossible Ancestors
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 05 March 19 15:47 GMT (UK) »
I think it's the same girl. Couldn't find a birth reg for a Caroline.


Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline lost-in-yorkshire

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Re: Impossible Ancestors
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 05 March 19 15:55 GMT (UK) »
That is my thought when I was looking for births... I was unable to find a Caroline.

On the 1911 census that I found for David, (Ann had died in the January so just missed it) he had wrote that there were 7 children of the marriage... 4 of which had died.
ofcourse this had then been crossed out.
I shall have to tally who was alive and who had died from the names... I do not think he has counted Catherine or Mary Ann (as they were not his).
I'll check how many were born after 1878 to see if he just counted them or from the entirety of the relationship.