Author Topic: Opinion: are Ellen and Julia really children of John Garth and Mary Kershaw?  (Read 541 times)

Offline lmfamilyresearch

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Hello,

This is another one of my John Garth (Rochdale, Lanc) questions but it's related to two children my great-aunt has connected to him but I can't and that I'm not sure are connected to my family.  The information my great-aunt received from her commissioned research was that John Garth and Mary Kershaw, among others, had two children named Ellen and Julia.  (For this thread I am not interested in the children of John Garth and Mary Kershaw that I can find documents for and for whom I've received help from Rootschatters).  Now, I don't quite believe that Ellen and Julia are John and Mary's children at all, especially since their other children all have their baptisms registered.  Ellen was born somewhere around 1816 and Julia somewhere around 1819.  There is an Ellen born in Colne in 1817 to different parents (William Garth and Ellen).  I can't find any birth/baptism for a Julia at all.  I am not even sure that Ellen and Julia are siblings.

The Ellen associated to my ancestors showed up in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, married (to Peter Cooper in 1841) and died there (in 1849).  The Julia associated with my ancestors also showed up in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, married (1836 to John Maugs/Mangs Gall) and died (in 1841) there.  Neither of the marriage records for Ellen or Julia indicate who their parents are.  I don't know when either of them arrived in Montreal.

I don't know if it's a coincidence or not that both Ellen Garth and Julia Garth settled in the same city where my ancestor George Garth settled after leaving Lancashire.  If Ellen and Julia are sisters to, or related some other way to George then I have not been able to connect them at all.

What does everyone think?
Bennett, Bowling, Braedine/Brodie, Bulmer, Burns, Cochrane, Devlin, Ellis, Garth, Henderson, Holm/Holmes, Kershaw, Masson, McClernon/McLaren/MacLaren, McComb, McKee, Pitt, Rawood, Riddel, Robinson, Whitaker, Wood

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Offline polarbear

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Re: Opinion: are Ellen and Julia really children of John Garth and Mary Kershaw?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 06 March 19 15:04 GMT (UK) »
Ellen and George....

One witness to Ellen's marriage was a Geo Garth (George?).

A George Garth and Sarah Whittaker had a daughter Sarah Anne baptized in Montreal in 1832. An Ellen Garth was one of the sponsers. Her signature here matches that on the above marriage, as does George's.

Is this George your George? This George and Ellen seem to be connected?

PB
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Offline lmfamilyresearch

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Re: Opinion: are Ellen and Julia really children of John Garth and Mary Kershaw?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 06 March 19 15:18 GMT (UK) »
Yes that is my George.  I didn't see those bits of information so thanks!  It would seem that Ellen and George are somehow connected.  I just wonder how they are connected.
Bennett, Bowling, Braedine/Brodie, Bulmer, Burns, Cochrane, Devlin, Ellis, Garth, Henderson, Holm/Holmes, Kershaw, Masson, McClernon/McLaren/MacLaren, McComb, McKee, Pitt, Rawood, Riddel, Robinson, Whitaker, Wood

Offline polarbear

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Re: Opinion: are Ellen and Julia really children of John Garth and Mary Kershaw?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 06 March 19 22:59 GMT (UK) »
Julia....

I was wondering where you got the info about Julia's 1841 death from? The only death that seems to turn up is for a Julia Taylor wife of Charles Gall who died in Montreal 09 March 1841 aged 51 years. St James Methodist Church.

There is a marriage in England 09 Sep 1813 that may be related to this couple. St Anne Westminster Middlesex.

PB
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Offline lmfamilyresearch

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Re: Opinion: are Ellen and Julia really children of John Garth and Mary Kershaw?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 07 March 19 00:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi PB,

I got the information from my great-aunt's information.  To be honest, I am not sure how accurate it was, especially since she hired someone to do the research for her.  Plus I always like to verify someone else's research for myself (if I am getting the information second hand).

When I found a death record for a Julia Gall in 1841 it didn't indicate who her spouse was.  It just said Mrs. Julia Gall.
Bennett, Bowling, Braedine/Brodie, Bulmer, Burns, Cochrane, Devlin, Ellis, Garth, Henderson, Holm/Holmes, Kershaw, Masson, McClernon/McLaren/MacLaren, McComb, McKee, Pitt, Rawood, Riddel, Robinson, Whitaker, Wood

Offline polarbear

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Re: Opinion: are Ellen and Julia really children of John Garth and Mary Kershaw?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 07 March 19 00:39 GMT (UK) »
OK. Always good to verify, for sure.

The image of the burial record I cited above is available in the Drouin Collection on Ancestry if you have a sub that covers Canada. Alternately, your local public library may subscribe to Ancestry Library Edition which would also give you access.

I believe the records are also available on the familysearch website.

The record is under Julia Taylor......women go by their maiden names in Quebec records. The record itself names her husband.

PB
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Offline lmfamilyresearch

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Re: Opinion: are Ellen and Julia really children of John Garth and Mary Kershaw?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 07 March 19 01:07 GMT (UK) »
Well that explains why I couldn't view the record on Ancestry, I was searching by married name  ::)

I forgot about the women in Quebec keeping their own name even when married.

I find I sometimes get better results when searching with a woman's married name.

I am hoping that when I visit my cousin I will be able to see my great-aunt's research for myself to see if I can find the connection between George and Ellen, but I am not counting on it being available or even there.

I have to admit that Ellen and Julia are a mystery and one I would like to figure out :)
Bennett, Bowling, Braedine/Brodie, Bulmer, Burns, Cochrane, Devlin, Ellis, Garth, Henderson, Holm/Holmes, Kershaw, Masson, McClernon/McLaren/MacLaren, McComb, McKee, Pitt, Rawood, Riddel, Robinson, Whitaker, Wood

Offline polarbear

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Re: Opinion: are Ellen and Julia really children of John Garth and Mary Kershaw?
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 07 March 19 01:16 GMT (UK) »
It's too bad that parents' names aren't usually given in Protestant marriage records the way they usually are for Roman Catholic ones. I think Ellen and George are probably related but will be difficult to figure out how.

The Montreal Directory has a George and Charles Garth at the same address in 1849. If Charles is related, do you know how?

PB
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Offline lmfamilyresearch

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Re: Opinion: are Ellen and Julia really children of John Garth and Mary Kershaw?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 07 March 19 01:35 GMT (UK) »
Hello,

Charles is George Garth's son.  Charles is my3x g-grandfathers and George is my 4x g-grandfather (if I counted the greats correctly).  My great aunt put a whole lot of information on Charles in the Library and Archives but I don't think there is a whole lot about George in that fond.  One of these days I will get to LAC and look through that fond.
Bennett, Bowling, Braedine/Brodie, Bulmer, Burns, Cochrane, Devlin, Ellis, Garth, Henderson, Holm/Holmes, Kershaw, Masson, McClernon/McLaren/MacLaren, McComb, McKee, Pitt, Rawood, Riddel, Robinson, Whitaker, Wood