Author Topic: photo date and opinions of if this is macabre - Sara Smith nee Trow  (Read 605 times)

Offline Ruskie

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Re: photo date and opinions of if this is macabre - Sara Smith nee Trow
« Reply #9 on: Friday 08 March 19 13:51 GMT (UK) »
I'm now having second thoughts about this being a PM photo. Her eyes look odd, but so do the boy's eyes (I think it may be due to the photo or the scan which has lost some detail?).

The way her fingers are holding the book seem very posed and unnatural, and this alone is making me think PM. :-\

I think those boys could be anything from 18 to 25 ish.  :)

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Offline Elliven

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Re: photo date and opinions of if this is macabre - Sara Smith nee Trow
« Reply #10 on: Friday 08 March 19 13:53 GMT (UK) »
I think you are right and she is dead.  Looking back now, I think this is macabre - even sick.  But I have heard of such things happening on several occasions.  One last photo opportunity maybe?

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Offline russell12

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Re: photo date and opinions of if this is macabre - Sara Smith nee Trow
« Reply #11 on: Friday 08 March 19 14:17 GMT (UK) »
I'd probably date the photo to be mid 1860s; judging by the middle woman's clothing; a front darted bodice with bishop sleeves, peregrine shawl and lace 'house cap'. Both boys look to be in their 20s.

Could be  postmortem - though I'm no expert (as we've already established  ;)) . The boy on the left seems to be supporting her head, and from what I can make out the pupils of her eyes seem to be sort of rolled/glazed over (?) - which although this is not the best quality scan, you can still make out the pupils in the eyes of the boys (maybe she had light blue/grey eyes?).

The fingers do look very stiff and unnaturally posed - though I don't how they would have supported the book (bible maybe).






Offline josey

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Re: photo date and opinions of if this is macabre - Sara Smith nee Trow
« Reply #12 on: Friday 08 March 19 14:48 GMT (UK) »
I'm sure the man on the right doesn't seem to have his legs where they should be if he was standing there.
They look like the crossed legs of a seated person to me. Not totally sure about the PM aspect of the pic yet.

If the pic is definitely dated to mid 1860s - sons would have been about early 20s - which they look; Sara died 1888 then it cannot be a PM photo. I agree that book could not have been supported by the hands of a deceased person - in that situation the book would most likely have been placed flat on their lap. 

ADDED: The whole bottom half looks more painted [see the texture of the skirt] than a photo. Going out on a limb here - I wonder if it is an early mash-up of 2 pictures?
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline giggsycat

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Re: photo date and opinions of if this is macabre - Sara Smith nee Trow
« Reply #13 on: Friday 08 March 19 14:56 GMT (UK) »
I think she is sitting on a sofa and the boys are behind it. The one on the right has his hand on the  BACK of the sofa. There is possibly a throw or blanket behind her which is confusing the image.

As you lot always want to dismember and kill off people  :o I think the lady was very much alive!!

Giggsy

Offline Mart 'n' Al

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Re: photo date and opinions of if this is macabre - Sara Smith nee Trow
« Reply #14 on: Friday 08 March 19 15:01 GMT (UK) »
It does seem very weird to me, but it was a reasonably common occurrence in the second half of the 1800s.

15:02 update.  Holding a book with your thumbs on the inside of the book and just the next two fingers behind it is a very uncomfortable way to hold a book.

Martin
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Offline Gadget

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Re: photo date and opinions of if this is macabre - Sara Smith nee Trow
« Reply #15 on: Friday 08 March 19 15:02 GMT (UK) »


ADDED: The whole bottom half looks more painted [see the texture of the skirt] than a photo. Going out on a limb here - I wonder if it is an early mash-up of 2 pictures?

That's what I was wondering, josey.
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Offline Treetotal

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Re: photo date and opinions of if this is macabre - Sara Smith nee Trow
« Reply #16 on: Friday 08 March 19 15:12 GMT (UK) »
Having seen this in Photoshop and played around...I think she is alive. She is spreading her fingers to support the book in that position.
Carol
CAPES Hull. KIRK  Leeds, Hull. JONES  Wales,  Lancashire. CARROLL Ireland, Lancashire, U.S.A. BROUGHTON Leicester, Goole, Hull BORRILL  Lincolnshire, Durham, Hull. GROOM  Wishbech, Hull. ANTHONY St. John's Nfld. BUCKNALL Lincolnshire, Hull. BUTT Harbour Grace, Newfoundland. PARSONS  Western Bay, Newfoundland. MONAGHAN  Ireland, U.S.A. PERRY Cheshire, Liverpool.
 
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Offline josey

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Re: photo date and opinions of if this is macabre - Sara Smith nee Trow
« Reply #17 on: Friday 08 March 19 15:16 GMT (UK) »
Strangely I can find no Sara[h] Smith deaths in Montgomeryshire 1888 [inc 1st quarter 1889] on freebmd...just wondered what OP has for her age on death. Looking for census now. 

Possibly 1851 HO107; Piece: 2496; Folio: 451; Page: 10 Llawnmog
Edward Smith   50
Sarah Smith   44 [edit: so born ca 1806/7]
Jane Smith   12
Thomas Smith   8
David Smith   6
Mathew Smith   3
George Smith   1
John Evans   10

A possible death
Deaths Jun 1885 [edit: so born ca 1808]
Smith    Sarah    77    Newtown    11b   141

Sarah in the picture [nice one, Carol] looks much nearer 50 - 60 than late 70s to me again putting date at 1860s along with apparent ages of sons.
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON