Edwin Reuben CARPENTER of Ballarat Did he rob a bank?

[sparrett]

Hi Gerry,
The findings for Edwin CARPENTER in 1854 and 1866 to 1870 are very enlightening. . The 1875 one for Margaret as a grocer, we had further back in the topic.

It shows his activity from the time he nominated an agent for his property in Qld, 1865 through a move back to Melbourne and an assumed departure for USA between 1870 and 1872, (when the letter was dated)

As well, we see his accommodation in1854 before the move to Ballarat.

[emilypos]

Edwin Married  12 Nov 1853 in Melbourne to Margaret LESLIE , migrant from Aberdeen  per CHANCE 26 Oct 1852   This ship was quarantined for 3 weeks .

Andrew Jackson BARNEY was a 3rd Cousin of Edwin. He arrived in Melbourne per New Orleans 1 May 1853 . Andrew got naturalised in 1901

These 2 were in Ballarat around the same time period . Never been able confirm whether they knew each other.

 I have an unconfirmed note the Edwin CARPENTER sailed back to the US from Sydney per Gold Sea 17 Jul 1869 to San Francisco. He had his photo taken by John  T GORUS  in Sydney

This Gold sea ship arrived in Sydney from London 20 May 1869

I have a photo of Margaret CARPENTERs grocers shop  in Carlton.   Some 20 + years  ago while down in Melbourne  I checked and this building had quite distinctive chimneys  pots   and was still  there.

Bye

Emilypos

[sparrett]

 I have an unconfirmed note the Edwin CARPENTER sailed back to the US from Sydney per Gold Sea 17 Jul 1869 to San Francisco. He had his photo taken by John  T GORUS  in Sydney

This Gold sea ship arrived in Sydney from London 20 May 1869

 
Emilypos

Golden Seas was cleared for departure July 21st 1869 and projected departure to be July 22nd 1869 from Sydney.
I do not see his name on this passenger list, but he was possibly one of the 10 in steerage.


https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/60891830


During the previous month or so before departure, there had been a good deal of advertising about the fine saloon accommodation on board. Taking bookings now for San Francisco

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13178894

Sue

[majm]

Edward CARPENTER on board Wonga Wonga out of Melbourne to Sydney  July 1869
http://marinersandships.com.au/1869/07/media/005won.gif   steerage up the coast  that is a trip in itself.  Many moons ago I sailed in Sydney Hobart and back up to Lake Macquarie....  the sea is very rough there.  I have sailed Auckland to Hawaii .... the sea up off NSW coast far far far worse.  If you can make that under sail, with your tummy in tact -  you can sail anywhere....

Also, Edward and Edwin when said 'aloud' as Edwin Carpenter or as Edward Carpenter ...  would sound the same as each other to those selling the ticket at the docks and then writing it down on a document facing them .... no proof of identity required in 1869 and unlikely the passengers would read handwriting 'upside down'.

JM  PS  ... as an aside ... after my experience down to Hobart and back ...  I reckon I can sail 'anywhere'

[majm]

I apologise for butting into this quite late, but I think the original question was - where did he get the money?

Ballarat in 1856, this was not too long after the Eureka Stockade of December 1854.  Gold mining was still quite shallow at this time and some lucky parties were able to make their fortune rather easily.

Alternatively, fortunes were made in supplying consumables, liquor, accomodation, transport etc to a rapidly expanding community hell bent on digging and nothing else.

He was a ratepayer in Ballarat in December 1856, perhaps suggesting he came to town already with the money.

Can I just mention that mirl's thoughts about him arriving with funds on hand ... they are excellent. 

JM

[majm]

Some thoughts …. Re how to find further info about Edwin Reuben and when/where he died …
.......
Alice Leslie CARPENTER, born Essendon Victoria 22 August 1856, was baptised 1 April 1880 at St Thomas, Essendon and the indexed transcript has that she provided the clergy with the following info about her parents:
Mother: Margaret AITKEN
Father: Edwin Rashan CARPENTER
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTZP-8VQ 
GS film 1238887

I notice that the VICBDM has this birth registered for 1856, with reference # 8477, but with Margaret LESLIE as mother and Edwin CARPENTER as father.   
Do you have copy of that birth rego, if so, which parent registered it, and what information did they provide about Edwin Reuben Carpenter and about Margaret LESLIE …

I can see that Alice Leslie CARPENTER married Richard James LARNACH in 1879 as per Vic BDM online index (#3199) …
Do you have a copy of that marriage, if so what information does Alice give about her father?  Does the registration note that Alice’s mum is deceased?  Was the marriage ceremony at St Thomas?  Who were the witnesses? 

........
Margaret CARPENTER Vic BDM d.c.  in 1877  #7387
The index has her mother’s NEE name as AITKIN  and her father as William LESLIE  - does this d.c. show Margaret as a Widow? How does it note Edwin? Who was the informant?

......
Edwin Robert CARPENTER Vic BDM m.c. in 1881 #4648
The index has Edwin marrying Margaret GRAY …. What information did Edwin provide about his father?   Does he mention his mother as deceased …  How does the information about his parents compare with the information Alice provided about her parents when she married?

     So, what depths of detail was being given by Edwin Robert (who inherited) and Alice Leslie when they were providing information to clergy about their parents …   (remembering Alice gave info when being baptised that her mum was AIKEN … when it seems likely that AIKEN was Alice’s  Mum’s Mum. Well at least that’s how I would interpret the INDEX info, but it is only INDEX info rather than the actual document    – )

Sorry for all the questions ... 

JM

[emilypos]

No such things as silly questions . Have asked a few myself in the past few days

See  https://tinyurl.com/y4swp5h2   


This gives quite a deal of info

I have Margaret CARPENTERs death cert. . States she was a housewife, dau of Wm LESLIE, Blacksmith & Jean AITKEN. Married to Edwin Reuben CARPENTER . Have Alice Leslie CARPENTER birth cert, Dau of Edwin CARPENTER, 27 , farmer, Brockport USA  Margaret LESLIE ,25 Aberdeen . This doc also says married July 1853 Melbourne ....... Thats wrong . Have copy .... married Free Church manse 12 Nov 1853. He was 25 ,son Cyrus & Hannah Jenney CARPENTER , she was 21 dau Wm LESLIE Blacksmith & Jean AITKEN
They had twin boys Feb 1867 who didnt survive . .   Their death cert gives her maiden name as
ALEXANDER  and Edwin occ as saw mill owner
Dont have CARPENTER  LARNACH m cert

Have Cyrus Alexanders birth cert 1868 , that gives his fathers place of birth as Vermont . Not correct.
Do have a couple of  'muddled up all over the place' family histories written  by 2 of Edwins grand daughters
Have copy of a declaration  by Edwin Robert prior to his marriage 29  Nov 1881 that he was son of Edwin CARPENTER of place unknown

Think you need to take more than a pinch of salt  sometimes  to weigh up info on many BDM certs

Hope I've answered all

Bye
Emilypos
 

[majm]

Hi,

I think you need to consider establishing who knew what about Edwin Reuben at what point in time .... and to think about the eldest son and  possible benefits  to him in claiming deeds to Rockhampton properties ....  what had been happening to the rent in the weeks, months before ... collected ....so who received it ... and where were they .... USA or local or in VIC ...

Alice should have known that her middle name was her own mum's nee name .... so who was the informant,  and ...
Why would Alice need to be baptised some time AFTER her own marriage .... and ...

There are many loose ends that you can follow up,  of course .... who registered the 1868 birth ....

Have you considered a  thread on the USA board? 

JM

[sparrett]

Hi Emily,
I wonder if you could confirm a point on Margaret's death certificate where it requires children of the marriage living and deceased.

Are the twins John and Charles, who were born and died 1867, listed there?

OR

Can you confirm that you are reassured by the information on these twin's birth certificates that they are the children of your couple.

It is a very odd indexing

Sue