Author Topic: extract from Will dated 1678 - your help please!  (Read 179 times)

Offline 47jml56

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extract from Will dated 1678 - your help please!
« on: Saturday 09 March 19 19:47 GMT (UK) »
You have all been so helpful with my previous post that I have another little challenge for you!

There are two words in the attached extract that I am not confident I am reading correctly.  Here is what I have transcribed (uncertain parts in square brackets):

"Item I give and bequeath unto my Lovinge Sonne Robt Belcher all the rest of my goods
cattle Chattles and all the rest of my estate [whereall] and [___all] whatsoever
he paying and discharging legacys herein bequeathed and all my funeral charges...."

I'm attaching both the extract, and a copy of the entire page.

The will is from Leigh (near Uttoxeter) Staffordshire, in case this helps!


Lucas - Cheshire and Lancashire,
Redmayne - Yorkshire and Manchester,
Belcher - Staffordshire,
Gregory - Lancashire and Shropshire,
Parry, Bennett, Edwards - Shropshire

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Online goldie61

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Re: extract from Will dated 1678 - your help please!
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 09 March 19 20:10 GMT (UK) »
the missing word is 'p(er)sonall'

ie, his real (estate) and personal estate.

'p' is often used to stand for 'per', 'pro'. 'pre', depending on the context.


I'm not convinced the word before is 'whereall' - as you have bracketed.
The last bit is the part of 'reall' estate.
You would have expected the bit before that to say 'both' (real and personal), but those letters are not there.
It looks as if it should be 'b-e-h' from looking at the letters. (compare the 'be' to the start of 'bequeath'). I suppose it might mean 'be' Perhaps it is 'b-e-e' - are there any other examples in the will of an 'e' at the end of a word written the same as the last letter in that word?
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

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Offline 47jml56

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Re: extract from Will dated 1678 - your help please!
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 09 March 19 20:24 GMT (UK) »
.. so the word in front of "real" is "both", and the whole phrase should read "my estate both reall and personal whatsoever" ??

that certainly makes more sense!
Lucas - Cheshire and Lancashire,
Redmayne - Yorkshire and Manchester,
Belcher - Staffordshire,
Gregory - Lancashire and Shropshire,
Parry, Bennett, Edwards - Shropshire

Online goldie61

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Re: extract from Will dated 1678 - your help please!
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 09 March 19 20:25 GMT (UK) »
Sorry - I was amending my post as you wrote yours!

You have the gist of it, but I'm not sure the letters of the word say 'both;.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline 47jml56

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Re: extract from Will dated 1678 - your help please!
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 09 March 19 20:34 GMT (UK) »
thanks!  and I agree about "both" -- the letters appear to be "b e h"  Perhaps just sloppy handwriting since I can't think of any other word that would make sense here. 

I'll leave this topic open a while longer just in case someone else has a better idea  :)
Lucas - Cheshire and Lancashire,
Redmayne - Yorkshire and Manchester,
Belcher - Staffordshire,
Gregory - Lancashire and Shropshire,
Parry, Bennett, Edwards - Shropshire

Offline Bookbox

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Re: extract from Will dated 1678 - your help please!
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 09 March 19 22:38 GMT (UK) »
It’s probably written b o h, with the t omitted in error. Regardless of how it’s written, the intended word is surely both, as ‘both real and personal’ is a standard phrase in this context.

Online goldie61

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Re: extract from Will dated 1678 - your help please!
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 10 March 19 20:21 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for your insight Bookbox.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline 47jml56

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Re: extract from Will dated 1678 - your help please!
« Reply #7 on: Monday 11 March 19 19:16 GMT (UK) »
Thanks to you both for your help!  I am closing this one as "solved"!
Lucas - Cheshire and Lancashire,
Redmayne - Yorkshire and Manchester,
Belcher - Staffordshire,
Gregory - Lancashire and Shropshire,
Parry, Bennett, Edwards - Shropshire