Joseph William Chapman Artist

[JJen]

Death of Joseph Chapman -

q1 1864, St Saviour, Surrey
Vol 1d  Page 24
Age 47

JJ

[keyboard86]

  Family 1861 RG09/314/57/42
  In company so did not post full details?
Keyboard86

[condesa]

Hi All

I have discounted Harriet Bellingham as being Joseph's wife because the occupation of that Joseph is not right.  Also, not convinced about Joseph and Sophia Jordan as that Joseph was recorded as being a house painter (death certificate) and he died in 1846.  My Joseph was alive in 1877 when James married first time but had died by 1890 when James married the second time.

James married Alice Hargate Madaline Knowles in 1877.  She died in 1886.  James then married Eleanor Le Page in 1890.  Interestingly, Elizabeth Le Page (who I assume was Eleanor's sister but I can't trace her at all) was a witness at both of James's marriages.  James's occupation was glass painter in the 1881, 1891 and 1901 census.  I can't find a 1911 census for him.

Alice HM Knowles father was John Knowles, a tailor.  I did find a census with a John Knowles who was a tailor and Eleanor (wife).  Probably a coincidence as Eleanor Le Page was supposedly a spinster when she married.

[JJen]

I have discounted Harriet Bellingham as being Joseph's wife because the occupation of that Joseph is not right.  Also, not convinced about Joseph and Sophia Jordan as that Joseph was recorded as being a house painter (death certificate) and he died in 1846.  My Joseph was alive in 1877 when James married first time but had died by 1890 when James married the second time.

Chapman family (as transcribed) on the 1851 -

Joseph Chapman   36 Painter
Sophia Chapman   31
Carthine Chapman   9
Bascomb Chapman   6
Isaak Chapman   4
Selina Chapman   2
Susanah Chapman   6 Mo
HO107 Piece 1564 Folio 119 Page 10

JJ

1861 -

Joseph Chapman   44 Painter
Sylvia Chapman   39
Parker Chapman   15
Selena Chapman   12
Frederick Chapman   15
Sarah Ann Chapman   10
Henry Chapman   8
Charlotte Chapman   6
James Chapman   4
Walter Chapman   1
RG 9 Piece 314 Folio 57 Page 42

The above Joseph was still alive in 1851 & 1861 but died in 1864, so not the one who died in 1846.

On occasions the word deceased is not always written against the name of a father on the marriage cert. Perhaps this may be the case when James married Alice in 1877.

JJ

[condesa]

I did wonder if perhaps "deceased" had been missed off the marriage certificate.  The Joseph Chapman who died in 1864 was married to Sophia Jordan (not Sylvia) with the children mentioned by JJ previously. 

Charlotte, James, Walter and Sophia were all baptised on 12/1/1862 in St Saviour, Southwark. My main concern that this is not the right Joseph Chapman is that on the baptism record Joseph's occupation is House Painter.  It's quite a stretch from being a house painter and then recorded on James's marriage certificate in 1877 as an Artist.

Sophia re-married Stephen Welch in 1869.  In 1871 they were living with 4 of Sophia's children - James, Walter, Sophia and another girl, Ellen, who was born in 1863. 

Susan

[keyboard86]

Hi again, so do you agree that the widowed Sophia Chapman is the one who married Stephen Welch?
Keyboard86

[condesa]

Yes, I agree because she was living in the same house (3 Durrant Place, Southwark) in 1861 before Joseph died and 1871 after she had married Stephen Welch.

[mckha489]

It's quite a stretch from being a house painter and then recorded on James's marriage certificate in 1877 as an Artis

I would have thought this didn’t require too much elasticity of thought.

A house painter could be inside or outside. Don’t forget that they did an awful lot of paint effect work.  Fake wood panelling, fake marble etc.  if you earned your money doing that, it seems reasonable to think you might also “paint” as an artist. Or even just describe your father as an artist to make the marriage certificate more exciting.
Or if vicar asks fathers occupation, just after you have said you are a stained glass artist, and you say painter, vicar puts artist due to word association.

[condesa]

Hi

Thanks. That's a pretty good explanation.  I think I was too focused on the stained glass.  I'll get the death certificate and see what information that gives up.

Susan